Episode 039 - Building a Writer Community with Connie Johnson Hambley
August 11, 2020
Author and Sisters in Crime New England president Connie Johnson Hambley discusses how important it is for writers to engage in communities that can provide craft, business, and emotional support, and how to go about finding them. She talks about the idea of paying it forward, and how to shift the me-focus of networking into the you-focus of community building.
Connie Johnson Hambley is president of the New England chapter of Sisters in Crime, a member of Mystery Writers of America, and a board member of New England Crime Bake.
Connie Johnson Hambley is president of the New England chapter of Sisters in Crime, a member of Mystery Writers of America, and a board member of New England Crime Bake.
Connie has written for Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Nature, MassHighTech, and other wonky outlets, where she honed her skills in reaching readers at a deep emotional level. Her high-concept thrillers feature remarkable women entangled in modern-day crimes set in worlds where the good guys win–eventually.
She is the author of The Jessica Trilogy The Charity, The Troubles, and The Wake. Her short stories have been published in Best New England Crime Stories of 2016 and 2017 and in Mystery Weekly magazine. And she is a two-time winner of Best English Fiction literary award at the EQUUS International Film Festival in New York City.
She is the author of The Jessica Trilogy The Charity, The Troubles, and The Wake. Her short stories have been published in Best New England Crime Stories of 2016 and 2017 and in Mystery Weekly magazine. And she is a two-time winner of Best English Fiction literary award at the EQUUS International Film Festival in New York City.
"Community is, you pay it forward over a long period of time. And then when you come into need, the community will be there for you." --Connie Johnson Hambley
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Matty: Hello and welcome to The Indy Author Podcast. Today my guest is Connie Johnson Hambley. Hey, Connie, how are you doing?
[00:00:07] Connie: Hey there, Matty. I'm doing just fine. How are you doing?
[00:00:10] Matty: Great, thank you.
[00:00:12] To give our listeners a little bit of background on you. Connie Johnson-Hambley has written for Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Nature, MassHighTech, and other wonky outlets, where she honed her skills in reaching readers at a deep emotional level. Her high-concept thrillers feature remarkable women entangled in modern-day crimes set in worlds where the good guys win–eventually.
She is the author of The Jessica Trilogy The Charity, The Troubles, and The Wake. Her short stories have been published in Best New England Crime Stories of 2016 and 2017 and in Mystery Weekly magazine. And she is a two-time winner of Best English Fiction literary award at the EQUUS International Film Festival in New York City.
Connie is president of the New England chapter of Sisters in Crime, a member of Mystery Writers of America, and a board member of New England Crime Bake.
[00:01:10] You can tell from that bio, especially Connie's engagement with the writing community, that she is a great person to be talking about our topic today, which is building your writer community. And it's something that I've been spending a lot of time over the last year thinking deeply about and talking with a lot of the guests on the podcast about this topic, but we're really going to be focusing on that today.
[00:01:32] And I wanted to start out, Connie, by asking you what in your own author career made building a writer community important to you?
[00:00:07] Connie: Hey there, Matty. I'm doing just fine. How are you doing?
[00:00:10] Matty: Great, thank you.
[00:00:12] To give our listeners a little bit of background on you. Connie Johnson-Hambley has written for Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Nature, MassHighTech, and other wonky outlets, where she honed her skills in reaching readers at a deep emotional level. Her high-concept thrillers feature remarkable women entangled in modern-day crimes set in worlds where the good guys win–eventually.
She is the author of The Jessica Trilogy The Charity, The Troubles, and The Wake. Her short stories have been published in Best New England Crime Stories of 2016 and 2017 and in Mystery Weekly magazine. And she is a two-time winner of Best English Fiction literary award at the EQUUS International Film Festival in New York City.
Connie is president of the New England chapter of Sisters in Crime, a member of Mystery Writers of America, and a board member of New England Crime Bake.
[00:01:10] You can tell from that bio, especially Connie's engagement with the writing community, that she is a great person to be talking about our topic today, which is building your writer community. And it's something that I've been spending a lot of time over the last year thinking deeply about and talking with a lot of the guests on the podcast about this topic, but we're really going to be focusing on that today.
[00:01:32] And I wanted to start out, Connie, by asking you what in your own author career made building a writer community important to you?
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[00:01:40] Connie: First off, I think writing is so solitary. You need that kind of interpersonal outlet. You need that. But for me, the outreach was just a natural aspect of my personality. I'm very outgoing. Past careers have always been in front facing endeavors, whether they've been marketing, sales, project management, which you can relate to. You're always engaging. You're always outward. And then applying that to the writer world, I realized that it enables an exponential growth. You're not just trying to find family and friends and network through them. That all of a sudden you have a community around you and the more you engage with that community, the more you realize you're all in the same boat together.
[00:02:27] And then one thing I do want to mention is that I started off just volunteering a little bit in Crime Bake and then became a board member and now I'm co-chair of New England Crime Bake this year and completely retrenching things because of the virus. But things have a way of growing when you become engaged in a community.
[00:02:50] Matty: There are a whole bunch of things in that that I want to tease out. But one is that you had used the word networking and people alternatively use networking or community building. What are your thoughts about the freight that each of those phrases carries?
[00:03:05] Connie: Networking is very you-focused. I'm in business and I'm going to meet somebody and I'm going to tell them about me or my product, and then they're going to tell someone else. So when you're networking, you're pushing your sphere of influence outward, but it's very me-driven. Community building is so different because what you're doing is, you certainly are reaching out. You're saying, Hi, this is who I am, but more importantly you're saying, But who are you? And what can I do for you? And community building is more paying it forward than expecting a return, if that makes sense. And community to me is one that gets stronger over time. Whereas a network can almost become diluted if it gets so big, if you don't have those threads that are tying it back together. Having a large network is wonderful, but if you're not doing something to strengthen those ties, so what if you have 10,000 followers on Twitter or that network.
[00:04:17] Matty: It is interesting, the difference between LinkedIn, for example. On LinkedIn, if I got a friend request, or whatever it's called on LinkedIn, from anybody, I would just go ahead and accept it because it was just a way for me to let people know what I was doing professionally and for me to keep up with what other people were doing professionally. Whereas for my personal social media presence, I'm a little bit more circumspect about accepting people into it because I am trying to build a community there, I'm not trying to network, exactly like you're saying. So when you think of community, what's the scope of size when you're thinking of a writer's community?
[00:05:00] Connie: Oh, I don't think it has a particular size associated with it. I think it's individually driven. So it does share a networking aspect with that, but a community to me, just by its nature, it's a give and take. But it is mostly giving. Think of what happens in your community if you hear of a sickness or a new person moves into the neighborhood. You immediately give to that person. You immediately give of yourself to that newcomer or to that person in need. And you don't necessarily do it thinking, okay, next week she's going to do something nice for me. That's the networking thing. I'm going to do this for you and next week you're going to do it back for me.
[00:05:42] But community is, you pay it forward over a long period of time. And then when you come into need, the community will be there for you, and I think it is more reflective of genuine bonds. For example, when an author comes in need, what is a need that an author has? Well, we get stuck on a plot and we need to have a sounding board. We've just finished draft number two and we need beta readers. We're coming up to book publishing and we would love to do some blog tours. So those are needs that authors have. And if you've built a community and you've said, Come on my blog, let me help you beta read or let me give you some feedback, they're going to be there for you.
[00:06:34] Matty: I think that the way we met is a very interesting example of this because I had visited the table at last year's New England Crime Bake, I believe, for New England Sisters in Crime and chatted with the people there. And even though I'm based outside Philadelphia, I wanted to reach out to the New England community because some of my books and stories are set in Maine. And so I joined up and then you were nice enough to spend, I think, an hour on the phone with me one day, just explaining to me what were the opportunities that were available to me, especially as a remote member.
[00:07:08] And I don't believe you did that saying to yourself, Oh, and some day she's going to let me be on her podcast. It was clearly just a very generous giving of your time to help me feel welcome into that. And yet then when I thought of someone to talk about building writer community, I thought, Oh, I know the perfect person to talk about that.
[00:07:28] Connie: I think my cheeks are getting red, that's so nice. I'm so pleased and flattered both that I was able to, again, pay it forward. Nowhere did, I think, Oh, she's going to have that Indy Author Podcast thing going. And then we had talked about what this podcast means to you as well. And you're almost doing something very similar with your podcast, which is you're reaching out, you're strengthening those bonds in your community. You're creating something of value in the process. And I believe that's what I do with my writer group, New England Crime Bake, or Sisters in Crime New England, I'm creating something of value. And so here you are, too. So you know all about this community stuff, Matty.
[00:08:12] Matty: I did begin the podcast mainly as a networking effort. And I think the first episodes of the podcast came out in 2016 and they were very occasional. It wasn't until the end of last year, 2019, that I really got into a regular schedule and a little bit after that got to a weekly schedule, but it was really all about having an excuse to meet people and to talk with them about what their area of expertise was. And it has been so valuable because I think every writer has this dream group of people that they feel are their tribe -- that they're writing similar things or their business plans are similar or just their philosophy about writing is similar, whatever it is that makes you feel that sense of community with somebody. And I'm able to reach out to those people and say, Hey, would you chat with me for an hour, half an hour, 45 minutes about something that you're passionate about, and they invest the time and then in exchange I can provide them with nice audio and video assets for them to point their followers to. I can expose them to a new group of listeners through the podcast. But, yeah, you don't want to go into it with a quid pro quo mindset. That just comes naturally, if you're participating in the community to its fullest extent.
[00:09:28] Connie: Right. And there's something else about paying it forward in a community. I've had many years of business experience and I'm good at that kind of making-it-happen stuff. But when people get to know you outside of your work and they realize that you do your homework, you're very thorough, you're good at what you do. You're smart. You're engaging. You articulate well, you communicate well, there's going to be that little flag in the back of their head that says I bet you her books are pretty good that has that ancillary effect within the community. Definitely. And as the broad experience that you have too in your community, you're always getting wonderful ideas from people. You're listening to how they speak, that twang, that choice of words is going to weave its way into your character somehow, some way.
[00:10:20] So even though community building to me is the paying it forward, not expecting a podcast in return, but you're paying it forward, but you're in a very rich environment of your tribe. So you're listening to those informal conversations about how did that bestselling author work out that plot detail and why did they structure that scene that way in order to get to the next piece of it. And you're learning all of this in such an informal way that it really, to me, it cements it almost more than one of our many, many programs or panel discussions or whatever. I have found that just listening to people transition into fiction and nonfiction and short story and how that's different -- yes, there are panels on that, but those informal conversations that you have in your community as you're waiting for the meeting to start and you're just chatting with people, those pay you as you're paying it forward, if that makes sense.
[00:11:26] Matty: Yes. We've been touching on several different ways that writers can benefit from community, both gain benefit themselves and provide benefit to others, and in general, I think they fall into craft benefits, publishing voyage benefits, and emotional support. Different communities maybe have different expectations about what you are bringing to them and taking from them. If you go to a writer's group, each writer's group has a different gestalt. And there's some where they are there to talk about the business, man. How do Amazon ads work? Should I go wide? How many books do I have to sell before I do such and such? It's all very business oriented. And if someone comes into that environment with a more emotionally based need, it clashes. And similarly, if you go into a group where the discussion is very much around, I'm having trouble writing. I'm blocked. I'm emotionally wrestling with the topic, and you say, Yeah, but I want to know what you're doing with Amazon ads, that similarly doesn't work. So is there overlap there or do you have to go to different places depending on what your need is?
[00:12:38] Connie: And also, one need you're going to have at one period of time and you're going to have another need later. You're going to be emotionally stuck on a plot here, but then you're really going to need to know about those Amazon keywords here. I have to look at my own experience. As you were talking, I was counting how many writer groups do I belong to? And I belong to about six different writer groups: New England Crime Bake, Mystery Writers of America, some of the more organized national groups because they have tremendous resources and you really do learn a lot from them in a huge spectrum there.
[00:13:13] But I also along to a group that's very craft oriented, so a small intimate group of established writers who are focusing on the craft of writing, how to do this scene, how to answer that question. I also belong to another group that is focused on the business of writing. How do you establish the public face of publishing? How do you network or build a community? How do you do independent publishing, et cetera?
[00:13:45] So I belong to those groups at different points. Well, actually, I belong to them all at once, so my weeks are busy, but I find that even like in the business-oriented group, I might not be promoting something or gearing up to be on the business side of a new book anytime soon. But I realize that I'm able to hear their experiences and maybe share some of mine and help a little bit.
[00:14:12] So even though I'm not necessarily drawing from that group now I'm paying it forward. So I seem to be doing a lot of that. But I do think that it's really important for authors and writers, at any point in their careers, to get with a group that resonates with them, that thinks like them, and that approaches their work in a similar way, because you don't want to be sitting in a group of people going, this does not work. And it does for them. Fantastic. But it won't for you.
[00:14:56] The writer's time is really valuable. You can't spin your wheels in something like that. Thank them very much, because I haven't been invited into other groups and I just realized that they just have a different approach and that approach will work for them, but it just wasn't going to be something that I knew that I could draw from eventually.
[00:15:15] Matty: It's good for writers to consider that they have two approaches. They can look around in existing groups that are meeting the need that they have or accepting the strength that they have to offer, or you can make your own. One of the lifesavers for me during my writing career has been a group of four other authors who, we would get together once a month for brunch when we could still do that, and we still do that, we have a Zoom brunch. For anyone who's listening to this as a backlist episode, we are recording this in July of 2020, so still many restrictions based on the COVID pandemic. But we would get together regularly.
[00:15:56] And it was a group I had brought together because I knew these people personally, and I felt they were very compatible personally and compatible professionally in the sense that we were all writing in a similar genre. And I knew there was going to be no one who was going to dominate the conversation in that group. And I knew that there was going to be no one who's going to be a shrinking violet and a wallflower, and it's worked out great.
[00:16:24] And five really strikes me as the perfect number for that group, because beyond that, it starts getting more logistically challenging to organize, but also just trickier to make sure that in an hour Zoom meeting or two hour brunch or whatever, everybody gets to talk about what they would like to talk about. And that's been really a combination of craft things, publishing things, and emotional support. So if you're looking out there and you're not finding what you need among the existing groups that are available, you can always consider spinning up your own group.
[00:16:56] Connie: That's true. And in Sisters in Crime New England, we have forums set up for writers seeking writers. And it's actually easier now with our technology for someone in Philadelphia to connect with someone in Maine and be likeminded, whereas before those opportunities might not have existed. And I know that being thrown into the COVID blender, that I am definitely using technology as much as I can to reach out to my communities, plural, and connect with them as much as I possibly can. and to keep that warmth in that human connection that is lost.
[00:17:45] This is a wonderful, warm conversation between two people, but there is an effort that we're both putting into it to make sure that it's warm. And technology has a cooling effect on those interpersonal relationships. So I have very consciously made sure that I create opportunities for our members to come together and just share how are they doing? How are they feeling? What's going on? I had noticed that when we were doing a program, there's five, 10 minutes before the program starts that everybody's chatting or they're putting messages in the chat box, et cetera. And I realized that people were hungry for that connection. So with Sisters in Crime New England, so far we've had a virtual cocktail party--
[00:18:38] Matty: I went to that. It was great.
[00:18:40] Connie: Awesome. This month we had a Sunday brunch to get together at different times of day, because people can do it in the evenings or afternoons or et cetera. And then next month it'll be an ice cream social where people make their desserts and they show and tell their desserts on Zoom and maybe share a recipe or two. That's to generate that warmth, that connection, and that's community building. And then I realized that someone in Maine is saying, Hey, I have a need to someone in Rhode Island. And the next thing you know, they have formed a bond that is strengthening our community. I can't say enough good things about that serendipity that comes from those informal chats.
[00:19:22] But I did notice that there was a certain gravitational pull in all of these conversations also to talk about how we've been impacted by COVID and what's going on in our lives. Many of our members have lost loved ones. Some of them are learning that they are long haulers. They you're not emerging from their symptoms. And I realized that even though the cocktail party and Sunday brunch was supposed to be this uplifting thing, it was primarily, but it took a lot of effort to moderate the conversation respectfully away from the COVID conversation. So in light of that, then, we're doing a dedicated Zoom on just COVID. And it's an informal conversation so people can weigh in as they want, but it will be a guided conversation, so it's not just a free for all. But I really want everyone to have a chance to talk, to tell what's on their mind.
[00:20:25] And that to me is part of that strengthening of community. That to me, when you're able to sense that your community needs something and you're able to then as a community builder say, my community needs this, I'm going to put this out there for my community. That to me is my own personal payback as being the president of this chapter. It's to sense that, and to be able to fill that need is just very rewarding, very rewarding.
[00:21:03] Matty: I believe you have done a masterful job of balancing that need to provide some guide rails in a subtle and non-intrusive way. Every group Zoom meeting I've been on where this has become a topic, everyone has always said, this is one of the silver linings of this situation, this recognition that geographic distances don't have to divide us. I think we've all realized that from a business point of view if we've worked in corporate America, but I think people are starting to realize from a personal point of view. There are people I've met at writer's conferences that I still have virtual coffee with. And they're states away and I'm going to continue doing that even when I'm able to get together with people for coffee who live nearby me.
[00:21:47] Do you have any tips for a community building goal, if people are taking advantage of technology like Zoom to do that, do you have any specific tips you can offer on how they should go about that, whether it's strategic or specific tips for running a Zoom meeting?
[00:22:05] Connie: There's a lot there. First off, I do think build it and they will come. But you also need a certain platform. I have worked very hard in establishing a platform and I have to say that platform was probably established mostly on networking. But now that I have a certain platform, to see that need, and do you use that platform to say, Hey, we're going to have an ice cream social and come and share and talk, et cetera.
[00:22:34] Matty: Can you just expand a little bit on when you're using the term platform, what you're referring to?
[00:22:38] Connie: Whether it's via social media, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, you have followers, you have a presence out there. If I'm going to hold something, I've got a lot of people that'll help get that message out to a broader potential audience. Platform by definition is a foundation. It is something that you can stand on and extend your reach. I have 10,000 followers on Twitter. Big deal, because that's just networking, that's not a community, necessarily. And then I think that LinkedIn is an excellent tool, but it requires a different mindset when you're engaging in that particular orbit. As is Facebook. And I think that one of your questions earlier in preparing for this is, What about those introverted authors and writers? What can they do to help build a community?
[00:23:42] And first off, it's okay to be introverted. It's okay to be you, that's fine. It just means that you have a lot going on in your head that will come out on a page. So that's wonderful, you're to be celebrated. Don't worry that you're not the gregarious person taking all the oxygen out of the room. You don't want to be that either.
[00:24:01] But for the what can they do to build a platform? Maybe their strength is that one on one connection, maybe their strength is to really form a great connection with someone who has a blog that has tremendous outreach so that when their time comes, they can launch their book on that blog because they had a great connection with that one person. And so it's okay not to have 10,000 followers. It's okay not to do that as an individual.
[00:24:32] Now, some of the publishing houses will take exception to that because of course they want someone who is ready made. They don't want to fuss around in this business environment with someone who doesn't have a big presence, a big networking. And so the publishing house would take exception to my opinion on that.
[00:24:53] But yeah, speaking to all you introverted writers out there, we love you. And that's why an established organization like Sisters in Crime, Mystery Writers of America, it's okay, be a member, you can lurk in the sidelines, listen to those conversations, post on a forum every now and then, because those organizations are like a readymade community. They're already there, you just need to join and participate. Participate however you want to participate.
[00:25:22] Matty: My advice for introverts, especially at in person conferences, admittedly, is if they said, Oh, I don't know what I'm going to talk to anybody about, I said, If you say to anyone at a writer's conference, What are you working on now? you really don't have to worry about saying anything else for the next 15 or 20 minutes.
[00:25:39] Connie: That's so true. That's so true. And I immediately throw that question back to them. So people do that. They say, so what are you working on? And I give it two to three sentences. And then, What about you? Because I don't want those conversations to be about me.
[00:25:54] Matty: I think that that's the other great tip. That was my tip for the shy person. And then at the other end of the spectrum, there's the know-it-all, and I think some of the most impressive interactions I've had at conferences where I've been able to interact with the marquee names that are there, are those who are as interested in what everyone else is doing. They're happy to share what they're doing, but they're also very interested in what everybody else is doing. And as far as I can tell, they're not faking it. They're honestly interested in what you're writing, even if they have just spent 10 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. And meter your desire to share your knowledge with the community that you're a part of with the recognition that, don't pass up the opportunity to learn things even from unexpected sources, even if you've been in the biz for decades and you hit every list.
[00:26:47] Connie: That is one of the reasons why I love Sisters in Crime so much, because it is a very level organization. You can have a writer with an idea, maybe the first draft of the manuscript sitting next to that New York Times bestselling author and you're siblings. You are together in this writing world and guaranteed you will learn from each other. And what I love about Sisters in Crime, as I said, it's a very level organization. It doesn't say, okay, all of our traditionally published best sellers are over here. We don't talk to you guys. No. It's not like that. It's all part of it.
[00:27:30] Matty: Another difference that can sometimes show up in these writer communities is the published versus unpublished. So if you go to any writer's group you're going to maybe have a couple of people who just inked a movie deal for their book.
[00:27:44] Connie: Listen to them and say, tell me how you did that.
[00:27:46] Matty: Yeah. And they have to tell that story over and over again. And the person who just is thinking about jotting a memoir. So do you have any different advice about community building depending on where an author is, where a writer is, in their writing journey?
[00:28:05] Connie: It'd be needs space because you will need something at different points in time, but we all share the same struggles at a certain point in time, that indy author versus traditional, we still get hung up on our writing process or developmental editing, we still get hung up. There are certain things that we share regardless of how different our careers are. And I think that part of that comradery comes from finding that commonality and then building on it from there. I, myself, I'm a hybrid author, I'm independently and traditionally published, and having very different experiences on either end of the spectrum on that. That affords me a luxury of being able to talk both languages. But it still comes down to finding that commonality.
[00:29:05] Matty: I have to go back to something you had said earlier that I thought was intriguing about what are publishers' expectations of their authors or potential authors community building efforts.
[00:29:17] Connie: Oh, whether, publishers look at their community building efforts, when they're thinking of taking on an author?
[00:29:24] Matty: Right. Either that, or once they've taken on the author, is there an implicit or an explicit expectation about community building once you have signed with the traditional house?
[00:29:35] Connie: There are other authors who can speak to this topic much more eloquently than I can, but what I have learned from my community is that the big publishing houses, the budgets aren't what they used to be, the book tours aren't what they used to be, if they are at all. So a lot of what that house used to do for the author is now on the author themselves.
[00:29:58] You've got to figure out how to promote, how to work, et cetera. So many of the marketing panels that I've moderated or put forth with Sisters in Crime, we have independently and traditionally published authors out there learning the same things. How do I expand my reach? How do I reach readers? How do I spark the buy in someone? And publishers are pushing more of that onto authors right now. And they do look for platform.
[00:30:35] One of the I'm doing right now in my own writing career, I've been a journalist, Bloomberg Businessweek and Nature, so that was inhaling information and exhaling angiogenesis or China pharmaceutical talents, those kinds of wonky things. And then I realized that I could inhale information and exhale fiction and suspense, so that was wonderful. And now I'm working on a nonfiction proposal, and it's a totally different world. With nonfiction, it is very factually based, but how you're writing it in a family saga, true crime way is a very different experience, but it's blending all of these experiences that I've had throughout my career.
[00:31:26] And I realized that as I write the proposal that the publishers and agents want to see a platform, they want immediately a marketing plan in that proposal. So this is answering your question about what do publishers expect. Can you imagine someone without business experience writing a business plan for a book. But I've done business plans, I've launched companies. So I understand what the questions are that they're asking. And very importantly, just like community building, you're not networking for you. You are understanding what that person needs in answering that question. you are engaging in a sell. And that goes into the whole marketing and selling framework.
[00:32:20] So when you are selling, it's not, Hey, I'm great. It's, so what do you need? So tell me about you. Have you ever thought of this and this is how this can help you. And that's exactly what you're doing in a nonfiction proposal. You're saying, I know what's out there. There are, these are the books that are out there. They're not addressing this particular need, but guess what? My book is going to fit into that niche and it's going to come ready-made with this audience. So you're not saying my book is great. You're saying my book fulfills a unique need in the marketplace. You're paying it forward. You're thinking ahead. You're putting three steps forward in that sell cycle or the buy cycle, if you want to say it that way.
[00:33:10] Matty: You have suggested so many great ideas. And if someone is listening to this podcast and they are not engaged in any writer community yet, what is your advice to them about how they should dip a toe in that water?
[00:33:22] Connie: Join Sisters in Crime New England, absolutely. And send me an email and I'll be glad to chat on the phone and hear where they're at and see what I can help them with. To dip a toe into that water, engage. Go onto a Facebook page, comment, ask a question, get your name out there.
[00:33:46] There are so many authors that I know that their names, and I'm so excited when I see them in person. And I consider this in person now, this is the new in person, but it's so exciting when someone does reach out and ask a couple of questions and I'm happy to answer, point them in the right direction. And how do they start? Sisters in Crime New England.
[00:34:13] Matty: Great. Thank you so much. This has been such a fun conversation. Please let our listeners know where they can go to find out more about you and your work on them.
[00:34:22] Connie: You can visit my website, which is www.conniejohnsonhambley.com. And then from there, you'll see, bio, events, what books I have out and also a contact form. I'm very good about responding to email questions.
[00:34:39] Matty: You are our poster child for writer community building. I want to thank you for that as well as for being nice enough to chat with me today.
[00:34:47] Connie: Oh, Matty. this has been such a pleasure and I had no idea that phone call a year ago was going to end up like this. So fantastic.
[00:34:55] Matty: Thank you again, Connie. This has been great.
[00:02:27] And then one thing I do want to mention is that I started off just volunteering a little bit in Crime Bake and then became a board member and now I'm co-chair of New England Crime Bake this year and completely retrenching things because of the virus. But things have a way of growing when you become engaged in a community.
[00:02:50] Matty: There are a whole bunch of things in that that I want to tease out. But one is that you had used the word networking and people alternatively use networking or community building. What are your thoughts about the freight that each of those phrases carries?
[00:03:05] Connie: Networking is very you-focused. I'm in business and I'm going to meet somebody and I'm going to tell them about me or my product, and then they're going to tell someone else. So when you're networking, you're pushing your sphere of influence outward, but it's very me-driven. Community building is so different because what you're doing is, you certainly are reaching out. You're saying, Hi, this is who I am, but more importantly you're saying, But who are you? And what can I do for you? And community building is more paying it forward than expecting a return, if that makes sense. And community to me is one that gets stronger over time. Whereas a network can almost become diluted if it gets so big, if you don't have those threads that are tying it back together. Having a large network is wonderful, but if you're not doing something to strengthen those ties, so what if you have 10,000 followers on Twitter or that network.
[00:04:17] Matty: It is interesting, the difference between LinkedIn, for example. On LinkedIn, if I got a friend request, or whatever it's called on LinkedIn, from anybody, I would just go ahead and accept it because it was just a way for me to let people know what I was doing professionally and for me to keep up with what other people were doing professionally. Whereas for my personal social media presence, I'm a little bit more circumspect about accepting people into it because I am trying to build a community there, I'm not trying to network, exactly like you're saying. So when you think of community, what's the scope of size when you're thinking of a writer's community?
[00:05:00] Connie: Oh, I don't think it has a particular size associated with it. I think it's individually driven. So it does share a networking aspect with that, but a community to me, just by its nature, it's a give and take. But it is mostly giving. Think of what happens in your community if you hear of a sickness or a new person moves into the neighborhood. You immediately give to that person. You immediately give of yourself to that newcomer or to that person in need. And you don't necessarily do it thinking, okay, next week she's going to do something nice for me. That's the networking thing. I'm going to do this for you and next week you're going to do it back for me.
[00:05:42] But community is, you pay it forward over a long period of time. And then when you come into need, the community will be there for you, and I think it is more reflective of genuine bonds. For example, when an author comes in need, what is a need that an author has? Well, we get stuck on a plot and we need to have a sounding board. We've just finished draft number two and we need beta readers. We're coming up to book publishing and we would love to do some blog tours. So those are needs that authors have. And if you've built a community and you've said, Come on my blog, let me help you beta read or let me give you some feedback, they're going to be there for you.
[00:06:34] Matty: I think that the way we met is a very interesting example of this because I had visited the table at last year's New England Crime Bake, I believe, for New England Sisters in Crime and chatted with the people there. And even though I'm based outside Philadelphia, I wanted to reach out to the New England community because some of my books and stories are set in Maine. And so I joined up and then you were nice enough to spend, I think, an hour on the phone with me one day, just explaining to me what were the opportunities that were available to me, especially as a remote member.
[00:07:08] And I don't believe you did that saying to yourself, Oh, and some day she's going to let me be on her podcast. It was clearly just a very generous giving of your time to help me feel welcome into that. And yet then when I thought of someone to talk about building writer community, I thought, Oh, I know the perfect person to talk about that.
[00:07:28] Connie: I think my cheeks are getting red, that's so nice. I'm so pleased and flattered both that I was able to, again, pay it forward. Nowhere did, I think, Oh, she's going to have that Indy Author Podcast thing going. And then we had talked about what this podcast means to you as well. And you're almost doing something very similar with your podcast, which is you're reaching out, you're strengthening those bonds in your community. You're creating something of value in the process. And I believe that's what I do with my writer group, New England Crime Bake, or Sisters in Crime New England, I'm creating something of value. And so here you are, too. So you know all about this community stuff, Matty.
[00:08:12] Matty: I did begin the podcast mainly as a networking effort. And I think the first episodes of the podcast came out in 2016 and they were very occasional. It wasn't until the end of last year, 2019, that I really got into a regular schedule and a little bit after that got to a weekly schedule, but it was really all about having an excuse to meet people and to talk with them about what their area of expertise was. And it has been so valuable because I think every writer has this dream group of people that they feel are their tribe -- that they're writing similar things or their business plans are similar or just their philosophy about writing is similar, whatever it is that makes you feel that sense of community with somebody. And I'm able to reach out to those people and say, Hey, would you chat with me for an hour, half an hour, 45 minutes about something that you're passionate about, and they invest the time and then in exchange I can provide them with nice audio and video assets for them to point their followers to. I can expose them to a new group of listeners through the podcast. But, yeah, you don't want to go into it with a quid pro quo mindset. That just comes naturally, if you're participating in the community to its fullest extent.
[00:09:28] Connie: Right. And there's something else about paying it forward in a community. I've had many years of business experience and I'm good at that kind of making-it-happen stuff. But when people get to know you outside of your work and they realize that you do your homework, you're very thorough, you're good at what you do. You're smart. You're engaging. You articulate well, you communicate well, there's going to be that little flag in the back of their head that says I bet you her books are pretty good that has that ancillary effect within the community. Definitely. And as the broad experience that you have too in your community, you're always getting wonderful ideas from people. You're listening to how they speak, that twang, that choice of words is going to weave its way into your character somehow, some way.
[00:10:20] So even though community building to me is the paying it forward, not expecting a podcast in return, but you're paying it forward, but you're in a very rich environment of your tribe. So you're listening to those informal conversations about how did that bestselling author work out that plot detail and why did they structure that scene that way in order to get to the next piece of it. And you're learning all of this in such an informal way that it really, to me, it cements it almost more than one of our many, many programs or panel discussions or whatever. I have found that just listening to people transition into fiction and nonfiction and short story and how that's different -- yes, there are panels on that, but those informal conversations that you have in your community as you're waiting for the meeting to start and you're just chatting with people, those pay you as you're paying it forward, if that makes sense.
[00:11:26] Matty: Yes. We've been touching on several different ways that writers can benefit from community, both gain benefit themselves and provide benefit to others, and in general, I think they fall into craft benefits, publishing voyage benefits, and emotional support. Different communities maybe have different expectations about what you are bringing to them and taking from them. If you go to a writer's group, each writer's group has a different gestalt. And there's some where they are there to talk about the business, man. How do Amazon ads work? Should I go wide? How many books do I have to sell before I do such and such? It's all very business oriented. And if someone comes into that environment with a more emotionally based need, it clashes. And similarly, if you go into a group where the discussion is very much around, I'm having trouble writing. I'm blocked. I'm emotionally wrestling with the topic, and you say, Yeah, but I want to know what you're doing with Amazon ads, that similarly doesn't work. So is there overlap there or do you have to go to different places depending on what your need is?
[00:12:38] Connie: And also, one need you're going to have at one period of time and you're going to have another need later. You're going to be emotionally stuck on a plot here, but then you're really going to need to know about those Amazon keywords here. I have to look at my own experience. As you were talking, I was counting how many writer groups do I belong to? And I belong to about six different writer groups: New England Crime Bake, Mystery Writers of America, some of the more organized national groups because they have tremendous resources and you really do learn a lot from them in a huge spectrum there.
[00:13:13] But I also along to a group that's very craft oriented, so a small intimate group of established writers who are focusing on the craft of writing, how to do this scene, how to answer that question. I also belong to another group that is focused on the business of writing. How do you establish the public face of publishing? How do you network or build a community? How do you do independent publishing, et cetera?
[00:13:45] So I belong to those groups at different points. Well, actually, I belong to them all at once, so my weeks are busy, but I find that even like in the business-oriented group, I might not be promoting something or gearing up to be on the business side of a new book anytime soon. But I realize that I'm able to hear their experiences and maybe share some of mine and help a little bit.
[00:14:12] So even though I'm not necessarily drawing from that group now I'm paying it forward. So I seem to be doing a lot of that. But I do think that it's really important for authors and writers, at any point in their careers, to get with a group that resonates with them, that thinks like them, and that approaches their work in a similar way, because you don't want to be sitting in a group of people going, this does not work. And it does for them. Fantastic. But it won't for you.
[00:14:56] The writer's time is really valuable. You can't spin your wheels in something like that. Thank them very much, because I haven't been invited into other groups and I just realized that they just have a different approach and that approach will work for them, but it just wasn't going to be something that I knew that I could draw from eventually.
[00:15:15] Matty: It's good for writers to consider that they have two approaches. They can look around in existing groups that are meeting the need that they have or accepting the strength that they have to offer, or you can make your own. One of the lifesavers for me during my writing career has been a group of four other authors who, we would get together once a month for brunch when we could still do that, and we still do that, we have a Zoom brunch. For anyone who's listening to this as a backlist episode, we are recording this in July of 2020, so still many restrictions based on the COVID pandemic. But we would get together regularly.
[00:15:56] And it was a group I had brought together because I knew these people personally, and I felt they were very compatible personally and compatible professionally in the sense that we were all writing in a similar genre. And I knew there was going to be no one who was going to dominate the conversation in that group. And I knew that there was going to be no one who's going to be a shrinking violet and a wallflower, and it's worked out great.
[00:16:24] And five really strikes me as the perfect number for that group, because beyond that, it starts getting more logistically challenging to organize, but also just trickier to make sure that in an hour Zoom meeting or two hour brunch or whatever, everybody gets to talk about what they would like to talk about. And that's been really a combination of craft things, publishing things, and emotional support. So if you're looking out there and you're not finding what you need among the existing groups that are available, you can always consider spinning up your own group.
[00:16:56] Connie: That's true. And in Sisters in Crime New England, we have forums set up for writers seeking writers. And it's actually easier now with our technology for someone in Philadelphia to connect with someone in Maine and be likeminded, whereas before those opportunities might not have existed. And I know that being thrown into the COVID blender, that I am definitely using technology as much as I can to reach out to my communities, plural, and connect with them as much as I possibly can. and to keep that warmth in that human connection that is lost.
[00:17:45] This is a wonderful, warm conversation between two people, but there is an effort that we're both putting into it to make sure that it's warm. And technology has a cooling effect on those interpersonal relationships. So I have very consciously made sure that I create opportunities for our members to come together and just share how are they doing? How are they feeling? What's going on? I had noticed that when we were doing a program, there's five, 10 minutes before the program starts that everybody's chatting or they're putting messages in the chat box, et cetera. And I realized that people were hungry for that connection. So with Sisters in Crime New England, so far we've had a virtual cocktail party--
[00:18:38] Matty: I went to that. It was great.
[00:18:40] Connie: Awesome. This month we had a Sunday brunch to get together at different times of day, because people can do it in the evenings or afternoons or et cetera. And then next month it'll be an ice cream social where people make their desserts and they show and tell their desserts on Zoom and maybe share a recipe or two. That's to generate that warmth, that connection, and that's community building. And then I realized that someone in Maine is saying, Hey, I have a need to someone in Rhode Island. And the next thing you know, they have formed a bond that is strengthening our community. I can't say enough good things about that serendipity that comes from those informal chats.
[00:19:22] But I did notice that there was a certain gravitational pull in all of these conversations also to talk about how we've been impacted by COVID and what's going on in our lives. Many of our members have lost loved ones. Some of them are learning that they are long haulers. They you're not emerging from their symptoms. And I realized that even though the cocktail party and Sunday brunch was supposed to be this uplifting thing, it was primarily, but it took a lot of effort to moderate the conversation respectfully away from the COVID conversation. So in light of that, then, we're doing a dedicated Zoom on just COVID. And it's an informal conversation so people can weigh in as they want, but it will be a guided conversation, so it's not just a free for all. But I really want everyone to have a chance to talk, to tell what's on their mind.
[00:20:25] And that to me is part of that strengthening of community. That to me, when you're able to sense that your community needs something and you're able to then as a community builder say, my community needs this, I'm going to put this out there for my community. That to me is my own personal payback as being the president of this chapter. It's to sense that, and to be able to fill that need is just very rewarding, very rewarding.
[00:21:03] Matty: I believe you have done a masterful job of balancing that need to provide some guide rails in a subtle and non-intrusive way. Every group Zoom meeting I've been on where this has become a topic, everyone has always said, this is one of the silver linings of this situation, this recognition that geographic distances don't have to divide us. I think we've all realized that from a business point of view if we've worked in corporate America, but I think people are starting to realize from a personal point of view. There are people I've met at writer's conferences that I still have virtual coffee with. And they're states away and I'm going to continue doing that even when I'm able to get together with people for coffee who live nearby me.
[00:21:47] Do you have any tips for a community building goal, if people are taking advantage of technology like Zoom to do that, do you have any specific tips you can offer on how they should go about that, whether it's strategic or specific tips for running a Zoom meeting?
[00:22:05] Connie: There's a lot there. First off, I do think build it and they will come. But you also need a certain platform. I have worked very hard in establishing a platform and I have to say that platform was probably established mostly on networking. But now that I have a certain platform, to see that need, and do you use that platform to say, Hey, we're going to have an ice cream social and come and share and talk, et cetera.
[00:22:34] Matty: Can you just expand a little bit on when you're using the term platform, what you're referring to?
[00:22:38] Connie: Whether it's via social media, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, you have followers, you have a presence out there. If I'm going to hold something, I've got a lot of people that'll help get that message out to a broader potential audience. Platform by definition is a foundation. It is something that you can stand on and extend your reach. I have 10,000 followers on Twitter. Big deal, because that's just networking, that's not a community, necessarily. And then I think that LinkedIn is an excellent tool, but it requires a different mindset when you're engaging in that particular orbit. As is Facebook. And I think that one of your questions earlier in preparing for this is, What about those introverted authors and writers? What can they do to help build a community?
[00:23:42] And first off, it's okay to be introverted. It's okay to be you, that's fine. It just means that you have a lot going on in your head that will come out on a page. So that's wonderful, you're to be celebrated. Don't worry that you're not the gregarious person taking all the oxygen out of the room. You don't want to be that either.
[00:24:01] But for the what can they do to build a platform? Maybe their strength is that one on one connection, maybe their strength is to really form a great connection with someone who has a blog that has tremendous outreach so that when their time comes, they can launch their book on that blog because they had a great connection with that one person. And so it's okay not to have 10,000 followers. It's okay not to do that as an individual.
[00:24:32] Now, some of the publishing houses will take exception to that because of course they want someone who is ready made. They don't want to fuss around in this business environment with someone who doesn't have a big presence, a big networking. And so the publishing house would take exception to my opinion on that.
[00:24:53] But yeah, speaking to all you introverted writers out there, we love you. And that's why an established organization like Sisters in Crime, Mystery Writers of America, it's okay, be a member, you can lurk in the sidelines, listen to those conversations, post on a forum every now and then, because those organizations are like a readymade community. They're already there, you just need to join and participate. Participate however you want to participate.
[00:25:22] Matty: My advice for introverts, especially at in person conferences, admittedly, is if they said, Oh, I don't know what I'm going to talk to anybody about, I said, If you say to anyone at a writer's conference, What are you working on now? you really don't have to worry about saying anything else for the next 15 or 20 minutes.
[00:25:39] Connie: That's so true. That's so true. And I immediately throw that question back to them. So people do that. They say, so what are you working on? And I give it two to three sentences. And then, What about you? Because I don't want those conversations to be about me.
[00:25:54] Matty: I think that that's the other great tip. That was my tip for the shy person. And then at the other end of the spectrum, there's the know-it-all, and I think some of the most impressive interactions I've had at conferences where I've been able to interact with the marquee names that are there, are those who are as interested in what everyone else is doing. They're happy to share what they're doing, but they're also very interested in what everybody else is doing. And as far as I can tell, they're not faking it. They're honestly interested in what you're writing, even if they have just spent 10 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. And meter your desire to share your knowledge with the community that you're a part of with the recognition that, don't pass up the opportunity to learn things even from unexpected sources, even if you've been in the biz for decades and you hit every list.
[00:26:47] Connie: That is one of the reasons why I love Sisters in Crime so much, because it is a very level organization. You can have a writer with an idea, maybe the first draft of the manuscript sitting next to that New York Times bestselling author and you're siblings. You are together in this writing world and guaranteed you will learn from each other. And what I love about Sisters in Crime, as I said, it's a very level organization. It doesn't say, okay, all of our traditionally published best sellers are over here. We don't talk to you guys. No. It's not like that. It's all part of it.
[00:27:30] Matty: Another difference that can sometimes show up in these writer communities is the published versus unpublished. So if you go to any writer's group you're going to maybe have a couple of people who just inked a movie deal for their book.
[00:27:44] Connie: Listen to them and say, tell me how you did that.
[00:27:46] Matty: Yeah. And they have to tell that story over and over again. And the person who just is thinking about jotting a memoir. So do you have any different advice about community building depending on where an author is, where a writer is, in their writing journey?
[00:28:05] Connie: It'd be needs space because you will need something at different points in time, but we all share the same struggles at a certain point in time, that indy author versus traditional, we still get hung up on our writing process or developmental editing, we still get hung up. There are certain things that we share regardless of how different our careers are. And I think that part of that comradery comes from finding that commonality and then building on it from there. I, myself, I'm a hybrid author, I'm independently and traditionally published, and having very different experiences on either end of the spectrum on that. That affords me a luxury of being able to talk both languages. But it still comes down to finding that commonality.
[00:29:05] Matty: I have to go back to something you had said earlier that I thought was intriguing about what are publishers' expectations of their authors or potential authors community building efforts.
[00:29:17] Connie: Oh, whether, publishers look at their community building efforts, when they're thinking of taking on an author?
[00:29:24] Matty: Right. Either that, or once they've taken on the author, is there an implicit or an explicit expectation about community building once you have signed with the traditional house?
[00:29:35] Connie: There are other authors who can speak to this topic much more eloquently than I can, but what I have learned from my community is that the big publishing houses, the budgets aren't what they used to be, the book tours aren't what they used to be, if they are at all. So a lot of what that house used to do for the author is now on the author themselves.
[00:29:58] You've got to figure out how to promote, how to work, et cetera. So many of the marketing panels that I've moderated or put forth with Sisters in Crime, we have independently and traditionally published authors out there learning the same things. How do I expand my reach? How do I reach readers? How do I spark the buy in someone? And publishers are pushing more of that onto authors right now. And they do look for platform.
[00:30:35] One of the I'm doing right now in my own writing career, I've been a journalist, Bloomberg Businessweek and Nature, so that was inhaling information and exhaling angiogenesis or China pharmaceutical talents, those kinds of wonky things. And then I realized that I could inhale information and exhale fiction and suspense, so that was wonderful. And now I'm working on a nonfiction proposal, and it's a totally different world. With nonfiction, it is very factually based, but how you're writing it in a family saga, true crime way is a very different experience, but it's blending all of these experiences that I've had throughout my career.
[00:31:26] And I realized that as I write the proposal that the publishers and agents want to see a platform, they want immediately a marketing plan in that proposal. So this is answering your question about what do publishers expect. Can you imagine someone without business experience writing a business plan for a book. But I've done business plans, I've launched companies. So I understand what the questions are that they're asking. And very importantly, just like community building, you're not networking for you. You are understanding what that person needs in answering that question. you are engaging in a sell. And that goes into the whole marketing and selling framework.
[00:32:20] So when you are selling, it's not, Hey, I'm great. It's, so what do you need? So tell me about you. Have you ever thought of this and this is how this can help you. And that's exactly what you're doing in a nonfiction proposal. You're saying, I know what's out there. There are, these are the books that are out there. They're not addressing this particular need, but guess what? My book is going to fit into that niche and it's going to come ready-made with this audience. So you're not saying my book is great. You're saying my book fulfills a unique need in the marketplace. You're paying it forward. You're thinking ahead. You're putting three steps forward in that sell cycle or the buy cycle, if you want to say it that way.
[00:33:10] Matty: You have suggested so many great ideas. And if someone is listening to this podcast and they are not engaged in any writer community yet, what is your advice to them about how they should dip a toe in that water?
[00:33:22] Connie: Join Sisters in Crime New England, absolutely. And send me an email and I'll be glad to chat on the phone and hear where they're at and see what I can help them with. To dip a toe into that water, engage. Go onto a Facebook page, comment, ask a question, get your name out there.
[00:33:46] There are so many authors that I know that their names, and I'm so excited when I see them in person. And I consider this in person now, this is the new in person, but it's so exciting when someone does reach out and ask a couple of questions and I'm happy to answer, point them in the right direction. And how do they start? Sisters in Crime New England.
[00:34:13] Matty: Great. Thank you so much. This has been such a fun conversation. Please let our listeners know where they can go to find out more about you and your work on them.
[00:34:22] Connie: You can visit my website, which is www.conniejohnsonhambley.com. And then from there, you'll see, bio, events, what books I have out and also a contact form. I'm very good about responding to email questions.
[00:34:39] Matty: You are our poster child for writer community building. I want to thank you for that as well as for being nice enough to chat with me today.
[00:34:47] Connie: Oh, Matty. this has been such a pleasure and I had no idea that phone call a year ago was going to end up like this. So fantastic.
[00:34:55] Matty: Thank you again, Connie. This has been great.
I’d love to hear how community has helped you in your author journey, and if there are any steps you are going to take to extend your community based on Connie’s recommendations. Please add your comment below!
Links
Sisters in Crime New England
https://www.conniejohnsonhambley.com/
https://www.facebook.com/conniejhambleyauthor/
https://www.instagram.com/conniej.hambley/
https://cjhambleyblog.blogspot.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/conniejhambley/
https://twitter.com/conniehambley
https://www.pinterest.com/cjhambley/
https://www.conniejohnsonhambley.com/
https://www.facebook.com/conniejhambleyauthor/
https://www.instagram.com/conniej.hambley/
https://cjhambleyblog.blogspot.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/conniejhambley/
https://twitter.com/conniehambley
https://www.pinterest.com/cjhambley/
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