Episode 220 - Podcasting Playbook: Navigating Guest Opportunities with Michelle Glogovac and Special Guests
January 9, 2024
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Michelle Glogovac discusses HOW TO GET ON PODCASTS, including pitching to a podcast is similar to or different from other pitches in a writer’s life; the importance of pitching not just the book but the person behind the book; finding good podcast matches, both by finding your niche and by pushing the boundaries; the differences between fiction and non-fiction pitches; whether repetition of a story a problem; the dangers of following a script; a behind-the-scenes glimpses of a podcaster's life; the vital importance of repurposing; the pro tip of making a Spotify playlist of your podcast appearances; and the value of sharing freely (you won’t cannibalize book sales).
As a bonus, I solicited advice from previous podcasts guests about their tips for excelling once you land the guest appearance, and you’ll be hearing from Michael La Ronn, Jerri Williams, Melissa Addey, Frank Zafiro, and Emma Dhesi.
If one of those topics piques your interest, you can easily jump to that section on YouTube by clicking on the flagged timestamps in the description.
As a bonus, I solicited advice from previous podcasts guests about their tips for excelling once you land the guest appearance, and you’ll be hearing from Michael La Ronn, Jerri Williams, Melissa Addey, Frank Zafiro, and Emma Dhesi.
If one of those topics piques your interest, you can easily jump to that section on YouTube by clicking on the flagged timestamps in the description.
Listen to the full episode ...
Listen to and watch the interview ...
"I think that we so often are pitching the book when we should be pitching the person behind the book. I get press releases all day long about a book coming out, but what is it about the book that is going to resonate with my listeners and myself? I want to know the person who wrote it." —Michelle Glogovac
Michelle Glogovac is THE Podcast Matchmaker™, a podcast publicist, and host of the award-winning podcast, My Simplified Life. She works with entrepreneurs, authors, and experts to hone their storytelling abilities, grow their businesses, and elevate themselves as thought leaders. Michelle is a wife, mom of two, stepmom of two, and a fur mom. She has her B.A. and M.S. in Law and is the Founder and CEO of The MLG Collective®. Her first book, HOW TO GET ON PODCASTS, debuts in January 2024.
Links
Michelle's Links:
Author website: www.michelleglogovac.com
Facebook profile: https://facebook.com/michelleglogovac
Instagram profile: https://instagram.com/michelleglogovac
LinkedIn profile: https://linkedin.com/in/michelleglogovac
YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLXE_Hs6IFerBiqj1Y1IEVQ
Matty's Links:
Affiliate links
Events
Author website: www.michelleglogovac.com
Facebook profile: https://facebook.com/michelleglogovac
Instagram profile: https://instagram.com/michelleglogovac
LinkedIn profile: https://linkedin.com/in/michelleglogovac
YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLXE_Hs6IFerBiqj1Y1IEVQ
Matty's Links:
Affiliate links
Events
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Michelle and my other expert guests! Which of the advice they offered resonated with you most, perhaps from your own experience as a podcast listener?
Please post your comments on YouTube--and I'd love it if you would subscribe while you're there!
Are you getting value from the podcast? Consider supporting me on Patreon or through Buy Me a Coffee!
AI-generated Summary
Are you looking for ways to stand out as a guest and successfully land interviews? Look no further! Michelle Glogovac, a renowned expert in guest pitching and interview techniques, has just released her latest book. In this blog post, we'll dive into the key insights shared by Michelle and explore why her book is a must-read for anyone seeking to master the art of being a great guest.
In her book, Michelle emphasizes the importance of going beyond a generic sales pitch. Instead, she encourages readers to share their knowledge and expertise authentically. Michelle knows that simply saying, "I've got this book and it's launching, buy it!" is uninspiring and lacks substance.
To captivate your audience, Michelle suggests taking a different approach. She encourages you to share everything that's in your book, highlighting the hard-won knowledge you've gained over the years. Michelle believes that by demonstrating your expertise and providing valuable insights, you can hook the listener and motivate them to take action.
One of the most valuable lessons shared by Michelle is the art of pitching yourself effectively. She provides practical advice on how to craft a compelling pitch that grabs the attention of interviewers. Michelle's strategies will empower you to present yourself confidently and concisely, increasing your chances of landing that coveted interview.
If you've ever wondered how to position yourself as an expert and secure interview opportunities, Michelle's book is a must-have resource. She delves into the nitty-gritty details of what it takes to excel as a guest, from understanding the mindset of interviewers to mastering the art of storytelling.
Whether you're an entrepreneur with a product or service to promote or an author launching a new book, Michelle's insights will guide you on your journey. Her book is a comprehensive guide, offering step-by-step techniques and actionable tips to help you navigate the world of interviews and maximize your impact.
Don't miss out on the chance to learn from Michelle Glogovac. Arm yourself with the knowledge and strategies she shares in her book, and you'll be well-equipped to conquer the interview circuit. Get your hands on "How to Be a Great Guest and Land Interviews" now and take your guest pitching skills to new heights!
In this conversation, we explored the key takeaways from Michelle Glogovac's latest book on becoming a great guest and landing interviews. Her emphasis on providing valuable insights and crafting compelling pitches sets her book apart from traditional sales-focused approaches. Don't wait any longer – grab your copy of "How to Be a Great Guest and Land Interviews" and unlock the secrets to interview success!
In her book, Michelle emphasizes the importance of going beyond a generic sales pitch. Instead, she encourages readers to share their knowledge and expertise authentically. Michelle knows that simply saying, "I've got this book and it's launching, buy it!" is uninspiring and lacks substance.
To captivate your audience, Michelle suggests taking a different approach. She encourages you to share everything that's in your book, highlighting the hard-won knowledge you've gained over the years. Michelle believes that by demonstrating your expertise and providing valuable insights, you can hook the listener and motivate them to take action.
One of the most valuable lessons shared by Michelle is the art of pitching yourself effectively. She provides practical advice on how to craft a compelling pitch that grabs the attention of interviewers. Michelle's strategies will empower you to present yourself confidently and concisely, increasing your chances of landing that coveted interview.
If you've ever wondered how to position yourself as an expert and secure interview opportunities, Michelle's book is a must-have resource. She delves into the nitty-gritty details of what it takes to excel as a guest, from understanding the mindset of interviewers to mastering the art of storytelling.
Whether you're an entrepreneur with a product or service to promote or an author launching a new book, Michelle's insights will guide you on your journey. Her book is a comprehensive guide, offering step-by-step techniques and actionable tips to help you navigate the world of interviews and maximize your impact.
Don't miss out on the chance to learn from Michelle Glogovac. Arm yourself with the knowledge and strategies she shares in her book, and you'll be well-equipped to conquer the interview circuit. Get your hands on "How to Be a Great Guest and Land Interviews" now and take your guest pitching skills to new heights!
In this conversation, we explored the key takeaways from Michelle Glogovac's latest book on becoming a great guest and landing interviews. Her emphasis on providing valuable insights and crafting compelling pitches sets her book apart from traditional sales-focused approaches. Don't wait any longer – grab your copy of "How to Be a Great Guest and Land Interviews" and unlock the secrets to interview success!
Transcript
219 Michelle Glogovac Transcript
[00:00:00] Matty: Hello and welcome to the Indy Author Podcast. Today, my guest is Michelle Glogovac. Hey, Michelle, how are you?
[00:00:05] Michelle: Hi, Matty. I'm so good, so happy to be here again. Thank you.
Meet Michelle Glogovac
[00:00:09] Matty: I am happy to have you here. And to give our listeners and viewers a little background on you, Michelle Glogovac is the podcast matchmaker, a podcast publicist, and host of the award-winning podcast, "My Simplified Life." She works with entrepreneurs, authors, and experts to hone their storytelling abilities, grow their businesses, and elevate themselves as thought leaders. Michelle is a wife, mom of two, stepmom of two, and furmom. She has her BA and MS in Law and is the founder and CEO of the MLG Collective. Her first book is "How to Get on Podcasts," which debuts in January 2024.
[00:00:54] Matty: I had Michelle on the podcast back in episode 137, discussing using podcasts to support your book launch. But I wanted to delve into the specifics a little more on how to get on podcasts.
What was the inspiration for Michelle's book "How to Get on Podcasts"
[00:01:08] Matty: Michelle, I'm just going to ask you to talk about what the inspiration was for feeling like this was something to capture in a book and what lessons you carried forward from your experience as a host to feed that.
[00:01:08] Michelle: It's been a journey, and there's so much. I've tried to put it all down in one book, and along the way, I'm like, you know what, I could do more. There might need to be a sequel. The inspiration really came around. It's twofold. I always wanted to write a book, period. I wanted to be an author. I am an avid reader, and to have my name on the cover of a book that people actually read was definitely an inspiration.
I had a book coach on my podcast, and we started talking about me wanting to write a book. Her opinion was that you should write something that you know about and that you're known for first. And I went, well, I know podcasts. That's what I do. It's what I'm known for. So I will write "How to Get on Podcasts." It's a book that is not out there; it has yet to be published. So I really felt the need to get this out as quickly as possible and to make sure that it contained everything that you would need to know. Not only how to get on podcasts but also how to create your speaking topics, how to create your media kit, how to be a great guest, how to repurpose all of your interviews into greater marketing content.
So it is all of that along with what is the host up to along the way. Because I found that a lot of guests don't understand what the host is doing, how much work, time, and money goes into producing a single episode. I wanted to pull back the curtain for readers to understand how much work is going into it while they simply show up for 30 minutes. And that's also why it's not okay to just say thanks with a 24-hour Instagram story of tagging the host, but why you should be thanking them even more profusely.
[00:02:55] Matty: Well, I have to say I love that. One thing that I thought of as you were talking is that I think authors are used to pitching themselves in certain circumstances. Certainly, people pursuing a traditional publishing path pitch themselves to agents and themselves in their books. You're pitching yourself to other promoters who can get the word out about your work. Are there certain things that you think are common lessons that authors can apply, whether they want to get on a podcast or any other available promotional platforms? In what ways is pitching for a podcast unique?
The importance of pitching the person behind the book
[00:03:34] Michelle: Absolutely. I think that we often pitch the book when we should be pitching the person behind the book. I get press releases all day long about a book coming out, but what is it about the book that will resonate with my listeners and myself? I want to know the person who wrote it. So, you should be pitching yourself—the person. Share your journey, what brought this book idea to you, the story behind the plot, the characters, and the parts of you included in the book. I find that truly fascinating—learning those behind-the-scenes aspects that only the author can share. What part of themselves did they put into it? What did their writing journey look like? When did they decide to become an author? Was it a lifelong dream, or did they add it to a full-time corporate career? How did they find the time to do it all?
I believe we need to pitch more of the person, the journey, and connect that to the book if possible. As readers, we often don't get to know the author unless we attend a book signing. Even then, they read from the book, you get your signature, 30 seconds with them, and then they move on. However, in an interview, connecting with the author allows the reader, the listener, to fall in love with the author and ultimately purchase the book because they want to know more or buy the next book to learn more about the author and the story.
I've seen this with my clients, especially with one in particular whose second book is coming out. After reading the first one and getting to know her, when I picked up the second one, I knew right away, "Oh, she included this because she's an artist. Oh, this is because she's done this." I really felt the author in the book, and I believe that's crucial and something unique that we haven't had in the past.
[00:05:37] Matty: One thing challenging for people is that if someone has written a fiction book, let's say, an epic fantasy or a murder mystery, something intrinsically intriguing, unique, or gripping, and then you ask them to talk about not that but themselves, their response might be, "I'm a former corporate wonk who is now retired," or "I'm a mom with three kids." It's hard for people to see what's interesting about themselves that they could use to engage people. Do you have any tips for how people can look past what may seem normal to them to recognize things that will be interesting to listeners or viewers?
[00:06:24] Michelle: I love that you brought up, what if you're a mom with three kids at home writing some murder mystery thing? How did that come about? I want to know more about how the mom with three kids is writing a murder mystery. What research did you take to create these storylines? So often, a lot of research goes into writing these books, and I want to know how you came up with this. What was the research, and how did you know where to look? That's all part of your story. I also have a whole list of questions in the book, like, what's your personal journey like? What have you done? It might not be interesting to you, and after talking about it a hundred times on podcasts, you might get bored with yourself.
But trust me when I say, just repeat yourself because as listeners, as human beings, we want to hear people's stories. They allow us to resonate with the person being interviewed. We get to know that we're not alone. There's a message of hope that if we are in a corporate career or we are the mom of three at home, we can also write a novel that others want to buy and read. So really think about your personal journey, your career journey, and your writing ritual. What do you do? These are unique to you, and what's unique to you is what others find special and intriguing and want to hear more about.
[00:08:19] Matty: And does this emphasis on selling yourself as the person in addition to your book apply both for pitching to a podcaster and presenting yourself during a podcast episode that you land? How do you balance that without making it a pitch that says, you know, "I started writing when I was seven," or something like that?
[00:08:42] Michelle: It depends on the podcast you're pitching to. There are tons of literary podcasts that focus on your writing journey, how you sold your book, how you published it, and the host will guide you through those questions. On the other hand, there are different kinds of podcasts. I suggest authors pitch to more than just literary podcasts because your readers are listening to other podcasts. It's not necessarily that authors want to hear from other authors about their books, and those are your ideal readers. You want to branch out to who is your ideal reader? Who's reading your book at home? Is it the mom with three kids who wants an escape or loves true crime? What kind of podcasts is she listening to?
You need to search out those podcasts and, in doing so, you're talking to the host so that it's not just about one aspect. It allows the listener to get to know you, the guest, with the questions that the host is going to ask around a certain topic. Focus on sharing your message, sharing your knowledge, and make that your main focus. If you do that, it's not going to come across as selling yourself and talking about me, me, me.
[00:10:21] Matty: Yeah, I like that idea that you're implying of thinking of it not as facts you're sharing, but as stories you're telling. If you're telling a story, then you're serving the audience. If you're just sharing facts about yourself, then it just sounds goofy. Recognizing that you're there to entertain people, people are always entertained by stories about individuals when they're told by that individual.
[00:10:44] Matty: So, I took us right into the middle of that conversation, but I want to step back a moment and ask, when you're looking for the podcasts that are going to be a good match for what you want to share, how do you narrow that down? And then, is there any way you can expand that pool a little bit looking slightly differently at your topic? If you've written a book about growing tulips, maybe you look for all the tulip clubs in America or something like that. Is there a balance of targeting a specific niche and also maybe pushing the boundaries a little bit? How do you go about identifying what those podcasts are?
[00:11:24] Michelle: I love that you bring up tulip growing podcasts because from tulips, you could go into gardening, from gardening into hobbies, and possibly into midlife. Is it retirement? Who are the types of people who are gardeners? So really expand in that way of who is it that I'm searching for? Start small and then continue growing.
Look at Apple Podcasts as a great start. Whether or not you have an iPhone, you can still Google it. It's going to come up. Scroll to the bottom of a podcast you like. There's a heading that says, "more like these" or "something you might like," and there will be a list of more podcasts. Click on those, and then scroll to the bottom for more. It becomes a rabbit hole.
Look at Instagram, search hashtags like #gardeningpodcasts or #podcastsforwomen. See what posts come up because podcast hosts promote their episodes on social media. Check if they take guests, if it's a solo episode, if it's recent. Move what you find on Instagram to Google. Use platforms like podchaser.com for searching. Use Spotify with keywords filtered by podcasts and shows. Also, consider listendotes.com. Simply put "gardening podcasts" into Google, and you'll find lists already made for you, like the top 100 gardening podcasts.
[00:13:24] Michelle: I also utilize Spotify to make playlists for every client, including myself. You can upload cover art for your playlist, and I use a headshot of my client. I will use their font and their colors to put their name and then put in the title, you know, "Michelle Glogovac Podcast Interviews." In the description, you can put "The Podcast Matchmaker, CEO, Founder, Michelle Glogovac of the MLG Collective, Podcast Interviews featuring her." Add them to the playlist so they're all in one spot. Use the link to share in your pitches and on your media kit. Some clients put it on their LinkedIn profiles, and that way everything's in one spot.
[00:14:07] Matty: That's really nice. I just made a little mental to-do note for myself to follow up on that. Is there any different advice you would give in terms of finding podcasts to pitch or pitching yourself as a person as well as your product between fiction and non-fiction authors?
[00:14:26] Michelle: For nonfiction, you already have the topic outlined. Mine is "How to Get on Podcasts," so obviously, I'm talking about how to get on podcasts. For fiction, you can be more about the person, whereas nonfiction, you already have your subject matter to speak on. So for podcasts, I can talk to entrepreneurs, nonprofits, authors—all about how they can get on podcasts. For fiction, look at what you're doing, who you are, and how you can relate to your ideal reader.
[00:15:43] Matty: It's interesting to think ahead to when a person has made a name for themselves enough that they're not only pitching podcasts but being pitched by podcasts, asked to be a guest. I've had the experience sometimes where someone will get in touch with me, and on the surface, it looks like it's a weird connection. My first tendency is kind of to self-deprecatingly say, "Oh, no, no, I'm not the person to talk about that." But almost always, there's often a legitimate way you can tweak a topic you're used to talking about in a way that's interesting to almost any audience. So keeping an open mind in both those scenarios, both who you pitch and what pitches you accept.
[00:16:56] Michelle: I love that. Absolutely.
[00:16:58] Matty: That makes me think of something else you had mentioned before about the idea that you have a spiel. In a push, especially if someone is doing podcast appearances to support a book launch, you might be doing one interview after another. Do you have any tips about whether it's important to keep it fresh, and if so, how? If you feel like you're saying the same thing over and over again in different podcasts, giving the same stump speech, what advice do you have to offer there?
[00:17:42] Michelle: Remember that the listeners are all going to be different, and you're not speaking to the same audience over and over again. If you say the same thing repeatedly, chances are the same people will not be hearing it. Not every host has the same group of listeners. So don't feel like you're repeating yourself. Treat it as a lesson to really hone your story, correct yourself if needed, and let it come out differently each time. You're talking to a new host every time, and the conversation and questions will be different. It's a unique, intimate conversation between two people, so you'll have differences in every interview.
[00:18:58] Matty: I can imagine some people thinking they're going to write a script and just have it next to their monitor when they do these interviews. Any tips about the dangers of relying on a script?
[00:19:10] Michelle: I have a client in marketing who, for years, worked for a corporation that wouldn't allow her to use the word "change." When I interviewed her, she neglected to mention this, so I brought it up, and afterward, I told her it's crucial to explain why she uses the word so much. Stick reminders on your monitor for important points or stories you want to include. People won't see it, but it'll trigger your memory during the interview.
[00:20:14] Matty: I think people can even be really overt about that. That's sometimes kind of charming. Like someone could pick up their index card and say, "This is so important that I've written this word, 'change,' on this index card." Those kind of behind-the-scenes glimpses, I think viewers and listeners enjoy seeing that. They don't expect, nor do they necessarily want, a perfectly polished presentation. They want a conversation, and those things can make it more conversational.
[00:21:40] Michelle: Absolutely. I love when people truly come out as themselves. You know, I've had where the kid walks in, and someone might go, "Oh, I'm going to edit it out." And I'm like, "Who cares? You're a mom, you've got kids," and I've had the dog barking. Well, it sometimes happens. We try not to, and obviously, that's in all of our best tips to make sure that everything's silent and your phone's in airplane mode, and the dog's not barking. But what happens if the mailman comes? Well, I already said that I was a fur mom, so chances are that it could happen, and that's okay. It's part of life, and I think it makes you more personable as well.
[00:21:40] Matty: I was curious. You had said early on about how one of the reasons you wanted to write the book was to give that behind-the-scenes look into the podcaster's life. I'm wondering what a couple of things are that you feel, maybe if you shared them with early readers of the book or just people among the audience that you wish to reach with your book, what were some of the things that were most eye-opening to them about you? The life of a podcaster.
[00:22:40] Michelle: I think how much time goes into a single episode. My editor and I, there was one point where I said, "You know, I want you to track every minute that you are spending. I'm going to track every minute that I'm spending for this 30-minute episode to go live." And it took us four hours. I think it's mind-boggling that people don't know this. Listeners don't know this. Guests certainly don't know this. That four hours of work, and this was a professional editor who has this whole mixing area, and me who has templates and processes and everything still to plug things in. It took us four hours to put together a 30-minute episode. I think that's really important to know.
Also, how much planning goes into it. We're not just having an interview today and you're going, "Oh, it's going to go live tomorrow. That's it, done." It's four hours plus you're scheduling it to make sure that it's going to fit perfectly here, or is the person I'm interviewing, do they have their book coming out, and when can I slot it in and make the dates all work?
[00:23:16] Matty: Yeah, I think that one thing that authors, even if they're very early in their career, I've spoken to guest after guest who's emphasized the importance of having your own website, that you're owning your own little piece of the online world. You're not relying on Facebook algorithms or Instagram algorithms to maintain your home base.
And having one of the pages be your bio. Your headshot and links to your social media will make your podcast host's life much easier. When they ask you for that, and you can send them one link, saying, "Yeah, everything you need is here," you're going to win a friend for sure.
[00:23:55] Michelle: Yes, I keep a Google Doc for everybody so I can copy and paste it to send to the host along with the headshot. If you're not providing it upfront, now they have to go check it and find it. Which link did you want included? All of that stuff. If you have it readily available, it makes life easier for everyone.
And my whole goal is for you not to give the host homework. If you give a host homework, then it's a no. It's a no from me if I have to go Google you. If you give me everything I need, then you make it an easy yes.
[00:24:31] Matty: And I think that page is even nice, having that as part of a website, as well as perhaps an auxiliary document that you send to people is nice. Just because if someone who has nothing to do with podcasts is on your website and is looking around. It's a really nice professional-looking presentation of yourself for them to see, "Oh yeah, they've got it together enough to be having this resource available for all the people who are interested in them."
[00:24:55] Michelle: Yes.
Share freely (you don't cannibalize book sales)
[00:24:55] Matty: One of the pieces of advice you offer in your book is the idea of sharing yourself freely without resorting to sales tactics. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:25:05] Michelle: Yes, I tell everyone never to go into a pitch or an interview with the intent to sell your product, your book, or your service. It comes off as the slimy salesperson. If you are going in with the intent to share your knowledge, to motivate somebody, to inspire someone, and to educate them, then you won't come off as a salesperson. You are truly sharing your story, your gifts, and your knowledge. And that's what's going to resonate with people.
Nobody wants to go to the car salesman. We went to the lot, bought a car in September, and it was like, "What are you looking for? What do you need? Oh, what do you want to drive?" It was right away that I want to sell you a car versus, "What is it that you're looking for? What's your family like? What can I help you with?" Then we'll work together to find that perfect car.
There are two different scenarios, and the same goes for podcast interviews. If you could come on and say, "I've got this book, and it's launching, and it's fantastic, and it's a bestseller, and you should buy it," that's boring. Versus, "Let me tell you everything that's in the book because I worked so hard to gain all of this knowledge over so many years of how exactly it is to be a great guest. How can you pitch yourself and land that interview?" To take that perspective instead is what's going to not only hook the listener but then make them want to buy whatever product, service, or book you have to offer.
Because you've given of yourself. It's kind of like that mutual, "What's in it for them too?" Well, now they can go find you more. They want to search you out on the internet, follow you on social media, and ultimately want to either work with you or buy your product, your book, or whatever it is.
[00:26:51] Matty: I think it's especially important for nonfiction writers to realize that you could say everything there was in your book in your set of podcast interviews, and people will still buy your book. Don't hold things back because you're like, "Oh, but they won't have any reason to buy it if I tell them everything." No, surprisingly, people will still buy it even if you've told them everything. So you can be super generous with what you share and not worry about undercutting their sales.
[00:27:19] Michelle: I completely agree, and I can take it one step further that you can also write everything you know and what you do in a book, and you will still get clients who will pay you to do exactly what you do.
[00:27:30] Matty: Exactly. It's a virtuous cycle. They want more, but they just want it in a different medium. I'm going to use that as an entree to my last question, which you mentioned earlier about repurposing. I'm totally behind that idea. If you give it to them in a podcast, they'll be willing to buy the book. If you give it to them in a book, they'll be willing to pay you to consult about it. I think it applies to repurposing as well. Can you talk about that a little bit?
[00:27:57] Michelle: Yes. The repurposing part came with my passion behind my own show. I want to get this out in as many ways as possible. If I'm spending four hours on one episode, then I need to make it work for me. With a podcast, you're going to get some social media assets, hopefully from the host. But you can also create templates that match your brand for yourself. Have posts with the cover art announcing the episode. Posts with quotes from the interview to promote yourself as the thought leader. Create your own blog posts, like the show notes on the host's website, put it on your website. Ask for the embed player link from the host so your visitors can listen directly without leaving.
Utilize Pinterest, do different videos, create a TikTok. Put it on LinkedIn. It should be on your media press page. Just as you have a page with your bio and headshot, also have a page listing every interview and feature, clickable for visitors to see where you've been. It's a big thank you to the host for interviewing you. Creating all these different ways to share is repurposing, and as I say in the book, it's a way to thank your host.
[00:29:37] Matty: Great. Michelle, it's always lovely to talk. I love talking meta podcasts with podcasters. It's always lovely to speak with you, and I love all your tips about getting on podcasts. Thank you again, and please let everyone know where they can find out more about you, your book, and everything you do online.
[00:29:53] Michelle: Thank you so much. I love always getting to chat with you. It's so much fun. You can find me at michelleglogovac.com or themlgcollective.com. That's the podcast PR agency. "How to Get on Podcasts" is sold everywhere books are available—Amazon, Barnes and Noble, bookshop.org. It is out on January 17th. You can also listen to me on My Simplified Life. It's out every Tuesday, and I'm on all the social media platforms I've mentioned as well.
[00:30:22] Matty: Great. Thank you so much.
[00:30:23] Michelle: Thank you.
[00:00:00] Matty: Hello and welcome to the Indy Author Podcast. Today, my guest is Michelle Glogovac. Hey, Michelle, how are you?
[00:00:05] Michelle: Hi, Matty. I'm so good, so happy to be here again. Thank you.
Meet Michelle Glogovac
[00:00:09] Matty: I am happy to have you here. And to give our listeners and viewers a little background on you, Michelle Glogovac is the podcast matchmaker, a podcast publicist, and host of the award-winning podcast, "My Simplified Life." She works with entrepreneurs, authors, and experts to hone their storytelling abilities, grow their businesses, and elevate themselves as thought leaders. Michelle is a wife, mom of two, stepmom of two, and furmom. She has her BA and MS in Law and is the founder and CEO of the MLG Collective. Her first book is "How to Get on Podcasts," which debuts in January 2024.
[00:00:54] Matty: I had Michelle on the podcast back in episode 137, discussing using podcasts to support your book launch. But I wanted to delve into the specifics a little more on how to get on podcasts.
What was the inspiration for Michelle's book "How to Get on Podcasts"
[00:01:08] Matty: Michelle, I'm just going to ask you to talk about what the inspiration was for feeling like this was something to capture in a book and what lessons you carried forward from your experience as a host to feed that.
[00:01:08] Michelle: It's been a journey, and there's so much. I've tried to put it all down in one book, and along the way, I'm like, you know what, I could do more. There might need to be a sequel. The inspiration really came around. It's twofold. I always wanted to write a book, period. I wanted to be an author. I am an avid reader, and to have my name on the cover of a book that people actually read was definitely an inspiration.
I had a book coach on my podcast, and we started talking about me wanting to write a book. Her opinion was that you should write something that you know about and that you're known for first. And I went, well, I know podcasts. That's what I do. It's what I'm known for. So I will write "How to Get on Podcasts." It's a book that is not out there; it has yet to be published. So I really felt the need to get this out as quickly as possible and to make sure that it contained everything that you would need to know. Not only how to get on podcasts but also how to create your speaking topics, how to create your media kit, how to be a great guest, how to repurpose all of your interviews into greater marketing content.
So it is all of that along with what is the host up to along the way. Because I found that a lot of guests don't understand what the host is doing, how much work, time, and money goes into producing a single episode. I wanted to pull back the curtain for readers to understand how much work is going into it while they simply show up for 30 minutes. And that's also why it's not okay to just say thanks with a 24-hour Instagram story of tagging the host, but why you should be thanking them even more profusely.
[00:02:55] Matty: Well, I have to say I love that. One thing that I thought of as you were talking is that I think authors are used to pitching themselves in certain circumstances. Certainly, people pursuing a traditional publishing path pitch themselves to agents and themselves in their books. You're pitching yourself to other promoters who can get the word out about your work. Are there certain things that you think are common lessons that authors can apply, whether they want to get on a podcast or any other available promotional platforms? In what ways is pitching for a podcast unique?
The importance of pitching the person behind the book
[00:03:34] Michelle: Absolutely. I think that we often pitch the book when we should be pitching the person behind the book. I get press releases all day long about a book coming out, but what is it about the book that will resonate with my listeners and myself? I want to know the person who wrote it. So, you should be pitching yourself—the person. Share your journey, what brought this book idea to you, the story behind the plot, the characters, and the parts of you included in the book. I find that truly fascinating—learning those behind-the-scenes aspects that only the author can share. What part of themselves did they put into it? What did their writing journey look like? When did they decide to become an author? Was it a lifelong dream, or did they add it to a full-time corporate career? How did they find the time to do it all?
I believe we need to pitch more of the person, the journey, and connect that to the book if possible. As readers, we often don't get to know the author unless we attend a book signing. Even then, they read from the book, you get your signature, 30 seconds with them, and then they move on. However, in an interview, connecting with the author allows the reader, the listener, to fall in love with the author and ultimately purchase the book because they want to know more or buy the next book to learn more about the author and the story.
I've seen this with my clients, especially with one in particular whose second book is coming out. After reading the first one and getting to know her, when I picked up the second one, I knew right away, "Oh, she included this because she's an artist. Oh, this is because she's done this." I really felt the author in the book, and I believe that's crucial and something unique that we haven't had in the past.
[00:05:37] Matty: One thing challenging for people is that if someone has written a fiction book, let's say, an epic fantasy or a murder mystery, something intrinsically intriguing, unique, or gripping, and then you ask them to talk about not that but themselves, their response might be, "I'm a former corporate wonk who is now retired," or "I'm a mom with three kids." It's hard for people to see what's interesting about themselves that they could use to engage people. Do you have any tips for how people can look past what may seem normal to them to recognize things that will be interesting to listeners or viewers?
[00:06:24] Michelle: I love that you brought up, what if you're a mom with three kids at home writing some murder mystery thing? How did that come about? I want to know more about how the mom with three kids is writing a murder mystery. What research did you take to create these storylines? So often, a lot of research goes into writing these books, and I want to know how you came up with this. What was the research, and how did you know where to look? That's all part of your story. I also have a whole list of questions in the book, like, what's your personal journey like? What have you done? It might not be interesting to you, and after talking about it a hundred times on podcasts, you might get bored with yourself.
But trust me when I say, just repeat yourself because as listeners, as human beings, we want to hear people's stories. They allow us to resonate with the person being interviewed. We get to know that we're not alone. There's a message of hope that if we are in a corporate career or we are the mom of three at home, we can also write a novel that others want to buy and read. So really think about your personal journey, your career journey, and your writing ritual. What do you do? These are unique to you, and what's unique to you is what others find special and intriguing and want to hear more about.
[00:08:19] Matty: And does this emphasis on selling yourself as the person in addition to your book apply both for pitching to a podcaster and presenting yourself during a podcast episode that you land? How do you balance that without making it a pitch that says, you know, "I started writing when I was seven," or something like that?
[00:08:42] Michelle: It depends on the podcast you're pitching to. There are tons of literary podcasts that focus on your writing journey, how you sold your book, how you published it, and the host will guide you through those questions. On the other hand, there are different kinds of podcasts. I suggest authors pitch to more than just literary podcasts because your readers are listening to other podcasts. It's not necessarily that authors want to hear from other authors about their books, and those are your ideal readers. You want to branch out to who is your ideal reader? Who's reading your book at home? Is it the mom with three kids who wants an escape or loves true crime? What kind of podcasts is she listening to?
You need to search out those podcasts and, in doing so, you're talking to the host so that it's not just about one aspect. It allows the listener to get to know you, the guest, with the questions that the host is going to ask around a certain topic. Focus on sharing your message, sharing your knowledge, and make that your main focus. If you do that, it's not going to come across as selling yourself and talking about me, me, me.
[00:10:21] Matty: Yeah, I like that idea that you're implying of thinking of it not as facts you're sharing, but as stories you're telling. If you're telling a story, then you're serving the audience. If you're just sharing facts about yourself, then it just sounds goofy. Recognizing that you're there to entertain people, people are always entertained by stories about individuals when they're told by that individual.
[00:10:44] Matty: So, I took us right into the middle of that conversation, but I want to step back a moment and ask, when you're looking for the podcasts that are going to be a good match for what you want to share, how do you narrow that down? And then, is there any way you can expand that pool a little bit looking slightly differently at your topic? If you've written a book about growing tulips, maybe you look for all the tulip clubs in America or something like that. Is there a balance of targeting a specific niche and also maybe pushing the boundaries a little bit? How do you go about identifying what those podcasts are?
[00:11:24] Michelle: I love that you bring up tulip growing podcasts because from tulips, you could go into gardening, from gardening into hobbies, and possibly into midlife. Is it retirement? Who are the types of people who are gardeners? So really expand in that way of who is it that I'm searching for? Start small and then continue growing.
Look at Apple Podcasts as a great start. Whether or not you have an iPhone, you can still Google it. It's going to come up. Scroll to the bottom of a podcast you like. There's a heading that says, "more like these" or "something you might like," and there will be a list of more podcasts. Click on those, and then scroll to the bottom for more. It becomes a rabbit hole.
Look at Instagram, search hashtags like #gardeningpodcasts or #podcastsforwomen. See what posts come up because podcast hosts promote their episodes on social media. Check if they take guests, if it's a solo episode, if it's recent. Move what you find on Instagram to Google. Use platforms like podchaser.com for searching. Use Spotify with keywords filtered by podcasts and shows. Also, consider listendotes.com. Simply put "gardening podcasts" into Google, and you'll find lists already made for you, like the top 100 gardening podcasts.
[00:13:24] Michelle: I also utilize Spotify to make playlists for every client, including myself. You can upload cover art for your playlist, and I use a headshot of my client. I will use their font and their colors to put their name and then put in the title, you know, "Michelle Glogovac Podcast Interviews." In the description, you can put "The Podcast Matchmaker, CEO, Founder, Michelle Glogovac of the MLG Collective, Podcast Interviews featuring her." Add them to the playlist so they're all in one spot. Use the link to share in your pitches and on your media kit. Some clients put it on their LinkedIn profiles, and that way everything's in one spot.
[00:14:07] Matty: That's really nice. I just made a little mental to-do note for myself to follow up on that. Is there any different advice you would give in terms of finding podcasts to pitch or pitching yourself as a person as well as your product between fiction and non-fiction authors?
[00:14:26] Michelle: For nonfiction, you already have the topic outlined. Mine is "How to Get on Podcasts," so obviously, I'm talking about how to get on podcasts. For fiction, you can be more about the person, whereas nonfiction, you already have your subject matter to speak on. So for podcasts, I can talk to entrepreneurs, nonprofits, authors—all about how they can get on podcasts. For fiction, look at what you're doing, who you are, and how you can relate to your ideal reader.
[00:15:43] Matty: It's interesting to think ahead to when a person has made a name for themselves enough that they're not only pitching podcasts but being pitched by podcasts, asked to be a guest. I've had the experience sometimes where someone will get in touch with me, and on the surface, it looks like it's a weird connection. My first tendency is kind of to self-deprecatingly say, "Oh, no, no, I'm not the person to talk about that." But almost always, there's often a legitimate way you can tweak a topic you're used to talking about in a way that's interesting to almost any audience. So keeping an open mind in both those scenarios, both who you pitch and what pitches you accept.
[00:16:56] Michelle: I love that. Absolutely.
[00:16:58] Matty: That makes me think of something else you had mentioned before about the idea that you have a spiel. In a push, especially if someone is doing podcast appearances to support a book launch, you might be doing one interview after another. Do you have any tips about whether it's important to keep it fresh, and if so, how? If you feel like you're saying the same thing over and over again in different podcasts, giving the same stump speech, what advice do you have to offer there?
[00:17:42] Michelle: Remember that the listeners are all going to be different, and you're not speaking to the same audience over and over again. If you say the same thing repeatedly, chances are the same people will not be hearing it. Not every host has the same group of listeners. So don't feel like you're repeating yourself. Treat it as a lesson to really hone your story, correct yourself if needed, and let it come out differently each time. You're talking to a new host every time, and the conversation and questions will be different. It's a unique, intimate conversation between two people, so you'll have differences in every interview.
[00:18:58] Matty: I can imagine some people thinking they're going to write a script and just have it next to their monitor when they do these interviews. Any tips about the dangers of relying on a script?
[00:19:10] Michelle: I have a client in marketing who, for years, worked for a corporation that wouldn't allow her to use the word "change." When I interviewed her, she neglected to mention this, so I brought it up, and afterward, I told her it's crucial to explain why she uses the word so much. Stick reminders on your monitor for important points or stories you want to include. People won't see it, but it'll trigger your memory during the interview.
[00:20:14] Matty: I think people can even be really overt about that. That's sometimes kind of charming. Like someone could pick up their index card and say, "This is so important that I've written this word, 'change,' on this index card." Those kind of behind-the-scenes glimpses, I think viewers and listeners enjoy seeing that. They don't expect, nor do they necessarily want, a perfectly polished presentation. They want a conversation, and those things can make it more conversational.
[00:21:40] Michelle: Absolutely. I love when people truly come out as themselves. You know, I've had where the kid walks in, and someone might go, "Oh, I'm going to edit it out." And I'm like, "Who cares? You're a mom, you've got kids," and I've had the dog barking. Well, it sometimes happens. We try not to, and obviously, that's in all of our best tips to make sure that everything's silent and your phone's in airplane mode, and the dog's not barking. But what happens if the mailman comes? Well, I already said that I was a fur mom, so chances are that it could happen, and that's okay. It's part of life, and I think it makes you more personable as well.
[00:21:40] Matty: I was curious. You had said early on about how one of the reasons you wanted to write the book was to give that behind-the-scenes look into the podcaster's life. I'm wondering what a couple of things are that you feel, maybe if you shared them with early readers of the book or just people among the audience that you wish to reach with your book, what were some of the things that were most eye-opening to them about you? The life of a podcaster.
[00:22:40] Michelle: I think how much time goes into a single episode. My editor and I, there was one point where I said, "You know, I want you to track every minute that you are spending. I'm going to track every minute that I'm spending for this 30-minute episode to go live." And it took us four hours. I think it's mind-boggling that people don't know this. Listeners don't know this. Guests certainly don't know this. That four hours of work, and this was a professional editor who has this whole mixing area, and me who has templates and processes and everything still to plug things in. It took us four hours to put together a 30-minute episode. I think that's really important to know.
Also, how much planning goes into it. We're not just having an interview today and you're going, "Oh, it's going to go live tomorrow. That's it, done." It's four hours plus you're scheduling it to make sure that it's going to fit perfectly here, or is the person I'm interviewing, do they have their book coming out, and when can I slot it in and make the dates all work?
[00:23:16] Matty: Yeah, I think that one thing that authors, even if they're very early in their career, I've spoken to guest after guest who's emphasized the importance of having your own website, that you're owning your own little piece of the online world. You're not relying on Facebook algorithms or Instagram algorithms to maintain your home base.
And having one of the pages be your bio. Your headshot and links to your social media will make your podcast host's life much easier. When they ask you for that, and you can send them one link, saying, "Yeah, everything you need is here," you're going to win a friend for sure.
[00:23:55] Michelle: Yes, I keep a Google Doc for everybody so I can copy and paste it to send to the host along with the headshot. If you're not providing it upfront, now they have to go check it and find it. Which link did you want included? All of that stuff. If you have it readily available, it makes life easier for everyone.
And my whole goal is for you not to give the host homework. If you give a host homework, then it's a no. It's a no from me if I have to go Google you. If you give me everything I need, then you make it an easy yes.
[00:24:31] Matty: And I think that page is even nice, having that as part of a website, as well as perhaps an auxiliary document that you send to people is nice. Just because if someone who has nothing to do with podcasts is on your website and is looking around. It's a really nice professional-looking presentation of yourself for them to see, "Oh yeah, they've got it together enough to be having this resource available for all the people who are interested in them."
[00:24:55] Michelle: Yes.
Share freely (you don't cannibalize book sales)
[00:24:55] Matty: One of the pieces of advice you offer in your book is the idea of sharing yourself freely without resorting to sales tactics. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:25:05] Michelle: Yes, I tell everyone never to go into a pitch or an interview with the intent to sell your product, your book, or your service. It comes off as the slimy salesperson. If you are going in with the intent to share your knowledge, to motivate somebody, to inspire someone, and to educate them, then you won't come off as a salesperson. You are truly sharing your story, your gifts, and your knowledge. And that's what's going to resonate with people.
Nobody wants to go to the car salesman. We went to the lot, bought a car in September, and it was like, "What are you looking for? What do you need? Oh, what do you want to drive?" It was right away that I want to sell you a car versus, "What is it that you're looking for? What's your family like? What can I help you with?" Then we'll work together to find that perfect car.
There are two different scenarios, and the same goes for podcast interviews. If you could come on and say, "I've got this book, and it's launching, and it's fantastic, and it's a bestseller, and you should buy it," that's boring. Versus, "Let me tell you everything that's in the book because I worked so hard to gain all of this knowledge over so many years of how exactly it is to be a great guest. How can you pitch yourself and land that interview?" To take that perspective instead is what's going to not only hook the listener but then make them want to buy whatever product, service, or book you have to offer.
Because you've given of yourself. It's kind of like that mutual, "What's in it for them too?" Well, now they can go find you more. They want to search you out on the internet, follow you on social media, and ultimately want to either work with you or buy your product, your book, or whatever it is.
[00:26:51] Matty: I think it's especially important for nonfiction writers to realize that you could say everything there was in your book in your set of podcast interviews, and people will still buy your book. Don't hold things back because you're like, "Oh, but they won't have any reason to buy it if I tell them everything." No, surprisingly, people will still buy it even if you've told them everything. So you can be super generous with what you share and not worry about undercutting their sales.
[00:27:19] Michelle: I completely agree, and I can take it one step further that you can also write everything you know and what you do in a book, and you will still get clients who will pay you to do exactly what you do.
[00:27:30] Matty: Exactly. It's a virtuous cycle. They want more, but they just want it in a different medium. I'm going to use that as an entree to my last question, which you mentioned earlier about repurposing. I'm totally behind that idea. If you give it to them in a podcast, they'll be willing to buy the book. If you give it to them in a book, they'll be willing to pay you to consult about it. I think it applies to repurposing as well. Can you talk about that a little bit?
[00:27:57] Michelle: Yes. The repurposing part came with my passion behind my own show. I want to get this out in as many ways as possible. If I'm spending four hours on one episode, then I need to make it work for me. With a podcast, you're going to get some social media assets, hopefully from the host. But you can also create templates that match your brand for yourself. Have posts with the cover art announcing the episode. Posts with quotes from the interview to promote yourself as the thought leader. Create your own blog posts, like the show notes on the host's website, put it on your website. Ask for the embed player link from the host so your visitors can listen directly without leaving.
Utilize Pinterest, do different videos, create a TikTok. Put it on LinkedIn. It should be on your media press page. Just as you have a page with your bio and headshot, also have a page listing every interview and feature, clickable for visitors to see where you've been. It's a big thank you to the host for interviewing you. Creating all these different ways to share is repurposing, and as I say in the book, it's a way to thank your host.
[00:29:37] Matty: Great. Michelle, it's always lovely to talk. I love talking meta podcasts with podcasters. It's always lovely to speak with you, and I love all your tips about getting on podcasts. Thank you again, and please let everyone know where they can find out more about you, your book, and everything you do online.
[00:29:53] Michelle: Thank you so much. I love always getting to chat with you. It's so much fun. You can find me at michelleglogovac.com or themlgcollective.com. That's the podcast PR agency. "How to Get on Podcasts" is sold everywhere books are available—Amazon, Barnes and Noble, bookshop.org. It is out on January 17th. You can also listen to me on My Simplified Life. It's out every Tuesday, and I'm on all the social media platforms I've mentioned as well.
[00:30:22] Matty: Great. Thank you so much.
[00:30:23] Michelle: Thank you.
