Episode 078 - Living Your Best Creative Life with Zibby Owens
May 11, 2021
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Zibby Owens talks about how creatives can adjust to accommodate a changing environment, as illustrated by Zibby’s publication at the height of the COVID pandemic of the anthology Moms Don’t Have Time To. She talks about how the anthology was a natural outgrowth of other professional and personal pursuits, how her work did and didn’t change during the quarantine, and how her creative pursuits provided emotional support in a time of personal tragedy.
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Zibby Owens is the creator and host of the award-winning podcast Moms Don’t Have Time to Read Books. Zibby, named “NYC’s Most Powerful Book-fluencer” by New York Magazine’s Vulture, conducts warm, inquisitive conversations with authors, making her show a top literary podcast as selected by Oprah.com in 2019 and 2020. She also created the Moms Don’t Have Time to Lose Weight community and hosts the accompanying podcast. Zibby is the Editor-in-Chief of Moms Don’t Have Time to Write, a Medium.com publication.
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"Look, life is short. If you want to do something, I would say, try it. What's the worst that happens? ... So if that's your goal, just do it. And you don't have to broadcast it to the world. You can start quietly." —Zibby Owens
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Matty: Hello and welcome to The Indy Author Podcast today my guest is Zibby Owens. Hey, Zibby, how are you doing?
Zibby: [00:00:06] Good. How are you?
Matty: [00:00:07] I'm doing great, thank you. To give our listeners a little bit of background on you, Zibby Owens is the creator and host of the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have time to Read Books. Zibby, named New York City's most powerful bookfluencer by New York Magazine's Vulture, conducts warm, inquisitive conversations with authors, making her show a top literary podcast as selected by Oprah.com in 2019 and 2020. She also created the Moms Don't Have time to Lose Weight community and hosts the accompanying podcast. Zibby is the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a Medium.com publication.
[00:00:41] And I asked Zibby to join us on the podcast for a topic that I'm still struggling to find a name for. And what popped into my head was "Pivoting towards new Opportunities." But since corporate America co-opted the word "pivot," it kind of makes me queasy. So I'm hoping that in the course of our conversation maybe we'll come up with a better way of framing this up. But we wanted to talk about what happened to you as an author, as an active member of the author community, in 2020. And I think that it might help for you to just describe what was going on for you personally and professionally in 2020.
[00:01:19] Zibby: Well, prior to the pandemic, I was hosting my podcast, Moms Down Have Time to Read Books and doing mostly in-person author interviews right here at the desk where I'm talking to you on Zoom. And I was hosting a bunch of events in my house where I would get an author or two together. I would interview them in a live podcast format and had a bunch of people come and I really was forming an offline, in-person community in that way, which I really got a lot out of. And it was a really wonderful addition. I was also having book fairs twice a year, selling all the books that had been on my podcast and doing bookstore event type things.
[00:01:54] When the pandemic hit, I realized I was set up so that I could help the authors whose book launches were being impacted because I could just start my own Instagram live show and continue my podcasts. But instead of just having however many a week I was doing, then now I'm doing seven a week, I could open it up and do live podcasts, sort of in mini increments every day for an hour, and just help anybody who had a book coming out whose book looked remotely good to me, but I wouldn't have had time to read them all.
[00:02:25] So I sort of opened up my platform that way to make room for the authors to have a launchpad, if you will. And at the time I was in quarantine with my husband and four kids, now they're six to 13, so a year earlier, and dealing with home-school and all of that and the stress of all that.
[00:02:47] And then as the pandemic continued, I launched a virtual book club, sort of an online complement to my in-person salons that I used to run and which I very much hope to go back to at some point. And I started this We Found Time essay website, which had been in the works prior to the pandemic, but I started launching essays written only by guests from the podcast, which ended up becoming my anthology. So I did that as well. ...
Zibby: [00:00:06] Good. How are you?
Matty: [00:00:07] I'm doing great, thank you. To give our listeners a little bit of background on you, Zibby Owens is the creator and host of the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have time to Read Books. Zibby, named New York City's most powerful bookfluencer by New York Magazine's Vulture, conducts warm, inquisitive conversations with authors, making her show a top literary podcast as selected by Oprah.com in 2019 and 2020. She also created the Moms Don't Have time to Lose Weight community and hosts the accompanying podcast. Zibby is the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a Medium.com publication.
[00:00:41] And I asked Zibby to join us on the podcast for a topic that I'm still struggling to find a name for. And what popped into my head was "Pivoting towards new Opportunities." But since corporate America co-opted the word "pivot," it kind of makes me queasy. So I'm hoping that in the course of our conversation maybe we'll come up with a better way of framing this up. But we wanted to talk about what happened to you as an author, as an active member of the author community, in 2020. And I think that it might help for you to just describe what was going on for you personally and professionally in 2020.
[00:01:19] Zibby: Well, prior to the pandemic, I was hosting my podcast, Moms Down Have Time to Read Books and doing mostly in-person author interviews right here at the desk where I'm talking to you on Zoom. And I was hosting a bunch of events in my house where I would get an author or two together. I would interview them in a live podcast format and had a bunch of people come and I really was forming an offline, in-person community in that way, which I really got a lot out of. And it was a really wonderful addition. I was also having book fairs twice a year, selling all the books that had been on my podcast and doing bookstore event type things.
[00:01:54] When the pandemic hit, I realized I was set up so that I could help the authors whose book launches were being impacted because I could just start my own Instagram live show and continue my podcasts. But instead of just having however many a week I was doing, then now I'm doing seven a week, I could open it up and do live podcasts, sort of in mini increments every day for an hour, and just help anybody who had a book coming out whose book looked remotely good to me, but I wouldn't have had time to read them all.
[00:02:25] So I sort of opened up my platform that way to make room for the authors to have a launchpad, if you will. And at the time I was in quarantine with my husband and four kids, now they're six to 13, so a year earlier, and dealing with home-school and all of that and the stress of all that.
[00:02:47] And then as the pandemic continued, I launched a virtual book club, sort of an online complement to my in-person salons that I used to run and which I very much hope to go back to at some point. And I started this We Found Time essay website, which had been in the works prior to the pandemic, but I started launching essays written only by guests from the podcast, which ended up becoming my anthology. So I did that as well. ...
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[00:03:13] And then tragically, while we were quarantining, my husband Kyle's mother and grandmother both passed away from COVID. And so I was going through grief at the same time as trying to lift other people up. I was just trying to get off the floor myself some days. And then my own grandmother passed away.
[00:03:31] Anyway, it was quite a journey and at the end of it, I've started a bunch of new things and a lot of good has emerged from basically being in touch with so many amazing people and authors and this community that I've built. But obviously the losses, and the loss to everybody in the world, are overpowering. So that was a synopsis.
[00:03:55] Matty: You're obviously very active in supporting the author community and doing authorial work yourself. So just to give a little further back background, what made you so interested in taking such an active role there?
[00:04:08] Zibby: I've always loved to read. I am a huge bookworm. I've always loved to write. When I was like 10 years old, I was writing letters to authors and I even went to tea once with one of my favorite authors at the Plaza when I was 12 years old, it was like the highlight of my life. So I've always just had this interest in the people behind the books and books themselves. But my life sort of had gone on different tangents. I was going to be a psychologist at one point. And then I worked in marketing and brand planning, and I was interested in consumer behavior and analyzing that. And I went to business school.
[00:04:41] And I've always written on the side. I've always read on the side. But those were just things for fun for me. And I had been doing more and more writing, especially after I got divorced I suddenly had a bunch of time on the weekends, every other weekend, that I didn't use to have, that was sort of silent and very odd after the chaos of four kids for a long time.
[00:05:04] So I finally had time to go back to my own writing, which I've always loved to do, particularly in essay format. And I wrote an essay called "A Mother's Right to Sanity" for HuffPost, which went slightly viral and really encouraged me to keep writing. So I did a bunch of parenting essays and it was my husband who suggested I try to make them into a book and I was like, moms don't have time to read books.
[00:05:28] And so I ended up starting this podcast, which was a suggestion of a girlfriend of mine, another author, who thought it would be fun for me. And at first I thought I would use the platform just to read the things I loved. Cause I'm always ripping things out and forwarding great articles, and recommending books and blah, blah, blah. But I realized that I couldn't read those excerpts and all of that without getting legal approvals. So it was really like, Well, why don't I try interviewing authors? Let's just give it a shot. I knew a handful of authors. And one thing led to another after I launched it, and I got great guests and I realized I loved what I was doing. I get so much joy from it every day. And it just took off from there.
[00:06:10] Matty: How are you finding the move from more in-person events to online events is affecting your creative life?
[00:06:19] Zibby: I'm actually able to do a lot more. I can fit two interviews in an hour instead of one. And I'm getting access to people who live all over the world. So I can do a podcast with somebody in New Zealand and hang up for that and then do a podcast with someone in Nigeria and then London. And it's like all in a day's work. So it's really amazing for me in that way, that there are no barriers or boundaries geographically for the types of authors who I talk to.
[00:06:47] And I don't mind it. I don't mind the Zoom interview situation. I obviously prefer, I mean, what a treat it would be to actually sit next to a person and talk to them. But after a year or 13 months of this, I've gotten used to the way this is. And I did use to do some virtual interviews before, so it's not like it was brand new for me.
[00:07:06] And my team before the pandemic, we had Zooms for our meetings, so I've always worked from home since I've had kids in one way or another. So it's not so out of the ordinary for me to be living this way. As long as I can connect to lots of people, whether it's in my living room or I'm on a packed Zoom screen for a book club, as long as I can sort of get that feeling, I feel good.
[00:07:29] Matty: You had mentioned the "Moms Don't Have Time to ..." quarantine anthology. Could you talk a little bit more about that and what brought that about?
[00:07:37] Zibby: I would love to talk more about that. Yes, that's my anthology. It came out in February and it includes 60 plus essays all by authors who have been on my podcast. And I divided the essays into five categories. Moms Don't Have Time to Eat, Work Out, Breathe, Have Sex, and Read. And authors wrote essays inspired by those topics. Not about the fact that they didn't have time, but inspired broadly by the topic of eating or the topic of relationships.
[00:08:04] And the essays were so good. They were all written during the pandemic or right before the pandemic or it was all towards the beginning, because they finished coming out by July of last year. And as I mentioned, they were originally on my website and then I sort of copied and pasted them one day in September into one document and realized that I had a book-length manuscript. So decided to just sell that.
[00:08:26] And now I have another anthology coming out with new authors, all new from the first one, writing on five more topics. And these ones are Moms Don't Have Time to Sleep ... let's see if I can get them right ... Sleep, Write, See Friends, Get Sick, and Lose Weight. So those are another almost 50 authors writing on those topics, which I love.
[00:08:48] And then I started Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a Medium publication, so that it's not just authors from my podcast who write, but everybody who wants to write personal essays, mostly inspired by common themes. So now we have a grief column: Moms Don't Have Time to Grieve, Moms Don't Have Time to Travel. Moms Don't Have Time to Have Sex is starting soon. And then just the general personal essay column.
[00:09:09] Matty: What was the impetus behind you originally asking for those contributions that ended up in the anthology?
[00:09:15] Zibby: I wanted to start a big, fancy website, like Goop or something, where I would have these categories and people would write for the categories, and I wanted it designed and whatever. It's actually ending up to be something similar to Moms Don't Have Time to Write, which is what I've started now. But at the time, that's what I wanted to do. So last January in 2020, I emailed, at that point I think there were like maybe 300 authors who had been on my show, and I just emailed them all, and I was like, Hey, I'm starting this thing. I'd love for you all to write if anybody is interested. And about 60 of them were like, I'm in. Anything you're doing, I want to do. And they ended up in the book.
[00:09:57] So now I've had, I don't know, 650-some-odd authors I've interviewed. So I could fill a lot of anthologies if everybody wanted to write, which would be amazing, but we'll see.
[00:10:08] Matty: It seems as if some of the things you had mentioned before, like you had thought about studying psychology, you had had some marketing experience, some consumer behavior interest or study, how did you factor that into the anthology or other aspects of your business?
[00:10:24] Zibby: I did not factor any of it in. Now it's crazy to me because what I'm doing is so perfect. It's such a perfect blend of everything. And I could not have made this up. I mean, I didn't even try to do this. I didn't have the vision at the day one to see exactly where this was all headed. I've done one thing after another and each thing inspires me to do another few things. So it's just turned out that where I am now, I basically turned this into a company called Moms Don't Have Time to, and I have my own little team and lots of plans and exciting things and everything else. It has turned out to use it, but I didn't start this venture with a business plan.
[00:11:06] I didn't start it saying here's where I want this to go. I started with, I love doing this podcast and I don't know where it's going to go, but I love it. So I'm just going to keep doing it and see what happens. And then one thing has led to another. So I don't think I could have planned it. And obviously could never have foreseen in the past year, which really changed what I wanted to provide to people and the way in which I did it.
[00:11:30] And the need that people had for content. I think that one of the things that makes me feel really good is when people tell me that throughout the pandemic, I was like a lifeline for them because they turned on my IG Live show every day at 11, or they listened to my podcasts every day on their walks, and they felt that they were connecting and learning and listening, and that makes me feel so good. So who knew? I mean, I certainly didn't know. I certainly didn't try to do this. But now I am trying to do new things all the time because I'm like so excited about it. So yeah, it is a perfect blend.
[00:12:01] People are like, How do you find time to do all this? And I'm like, well, everything I'm doing, I love. I mean, sometimes I have an accounting meeting coming up that I don't love, but most of the things I do related to this whole venture, I absolutely love, and I would do if I didn't have to do them and I don't have to do them cause I'm making this all up as I go. So, it's just amazing. And the people I've met and the connections I make between them makes me feel so good. And I'm really happy about it.
[00:12:27] Matty: When an idea comes to you, do you have some formal or informal emotional or business based criteria for saying, Yes, this is something I want to give a try?
[00:12:37] Zibby: I talked to my husband about it. I'm like, what do you think about this? He's the first person. Yeah, that's my main criteria. We talk about it and I see if I can try it and what I would need to do it and is it a risk? My philosophy is kind of testing things out, so I'm just going to try it, right?
[00:12:53] Like we just started this new podcast called Wake Up and Write, which just has the advice to aspiring authors that I have in all my interviews. So it's like a two minute short form podcast. Let's try it. I don't know. Do people want a two minute podcast? Maybe they don't, but maybe they do. Maybe there's a subset of people who that's going to help them wake up and write every morning. And how great is that?
[00:13:12] So it's sort of an informal process. How much time and resources this is going to take? Is this going to cost any money? I mean, a lot of this is very low cost. I'm not manufacturing sneakers or something. It's like I'm doing another podcast. It's the cost of hosting basically. So, they're mostly low risk endeavors.
[00:13:30] Now, there are some bigger things. I started Moms Don't Have Time to Travel and I'm trying to plan this big retreat in November. And all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, like this is becoming like a really big deal. I better be careful about this. So I do weigh in my head, what is this doing for my brand, and what could I be doing with that time if I were to not spend it on this new thing? I want to do the retreat, but how many hours? It's already taken me a lot hours to plan it.
[00:13:55] What would I be doing if I weren't focusing on the retreat? Would I be working on my work? Because I also am writing a memoir that I sold and that announcement to come and I'm recording the audio book for my first book. And I'm doing lots of writing myself still. I write the GMA--Good Morning America--I pick the books each month and write up an article for them. And I write for Thrive Global now. All these places now are asking me to write, and it's like my dream come true. So am I taking away time from that? Am I taking away time from reading books to make my podcast better? So I have to evaluate where they fit in my time and cost.
[00:14:28] And how much fun I'll have. What am I getting out of it? Like, you know what, yeah, this retreat's going to take a lot of time, but I'm really excited about it. So maybe it's worth it. So I guess there's the fun factor as well.
[00:14:40] Matty: You had mentioned that you have a team that you work with. How do you decide how you manage your team? What work you want to do yourself? What work you ask them to do when it's maybe time to bring a new team member on?
[00:14:52] Zibby: Yeah, I've been going through a lot of that lately. This has not been the area that I am the strongest in is management because I kind of like to do everything myself. And I've tried different iterations of teams, what skillset do I need? What would help me the most? So again, unfortunately, I've tried a bunch of things, which in this case is people, working with different people, all of whom I really like as people, but some of whom have not worked out for the organization.
[00:15:18] And now I actually think I have a great setup. I'm really excited. I've organized it by vertical. So I have someone, this woman Jess Hayes is running the travel vertical, and this woman, Sherri Puzey, is running the Moms Don't Have Time to Grieve vertical. I have Jordan Blumetti, who's amazing. He's running Moms Don't Have Time to Write. I have an editorial assistant who helps on that, but also everything else. And then I have my head of operations / Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books schedulers / the person who makes sure I show up where I need to be. She's amazing, and it's changed everything. Her name is Chelsea. And I have a social media person. And a publicist, so I just have a new publicist on board who is great. Oh, and someone helps with all the technical stuff. And then I have sound editors for the podcast, and everyone sort of serves a function.
[00:16:04] And I have such a great group of people right now. And also, the way I've done it from the beginning, I don't know why I started doing this, but this is just the way it's always been is I have a lot of people part-time. I have two, I think, full-time employees. And then I have people doing part-time work and contract work and maybe they have other jobs and that's totally fine. So that's the way I've sort of structured it. Nobody comes in ... actually Chelsea has now started coming in once a week, which I love, but nobody has to be here. People live all over the country. So, it's always been a sort of virtual organization. So, we'll see. I mean, this is really working right now. I also think having people who are as passionate or close to as passionate as me about what we're doing is really important because we have to be excited about it.
[00:16:43] Matty: Have you ever had to ask someone to unjoin the team because they were technically competent but were not bringing that sense of fun that you've mentioned a couple of times is obviously very important to you.
[00:16:56] Zibby: It's never been that clear cut, but yes, I've had to let go of many people.
[00:17:02] I mean, not that many, but yeah, a bunch of people as I've tried different iterations. You know, before the pandemic, I was trying to build up the team. And then during the pandemic, I was like, this doesn't make any sense anymore. I don't need someone for events when I'm not having events. So things like that. But, no, I've never let anyone go cause they're not having enough fun.
[00:17:21] But people are so complicated. Everybody's so multi-faceted, so I couldn't just isolate it to one variable. But I will say everyone I've worked with, I really like as people. So, it's been very hard to say, You know what, this isn't working right now for the business.
[00:17:34] But I'm on pretty good terms with most people who have come and gone, because I think everyone knows I'm just trying to sort this out. Like it is a startup, really. It wasn't even a business. It was just a podcast. Now I finally am like, this is actually a business. So I probably made a bazillion mistakes, but every day I try something and hope it works better.
[00:17:56] Matty: Do you enjoy having a team of people around you or do you see it as a necessary means to the ends of your looking for?
[00:18:02] Zibby: No, I'm loving the people I'm working with now because they're all bringing such interesting things to the mix. And they're really great. So, no, it's not a means to an end. No, I don't see it that way. I really am enjoying the people I'm working with now. And they're all bringing something that I couldn't bring or do as well. I've really been trying hard to find people who are better than me at lots of things. Not that that's so hard, not like I'm like this perfect person, but Chelsea for instance, I thought I was really organized. Like she's so organized. It's amazing. So I'm learning from her.
[00:18:35] And you know, with the Grief and Travel already, and those positions are really brand new, and they weren't positions I ever tried to fill. This is how everything keeps happening. It's just like, Oh, this should be done. And this is the perfect person for it. Like I'm starting this podcast this week called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Sex. And I didn't mean to start that, but I interviewed this sex expert, and I was like, Oh my gosh, you're hilarious. We have to do this podcast together. So that's how I'm launching that. And she's amazing. I adore her name is Tracy Cox.
[00:19:02] So that's just how I'm doing it. And sometimes people pitch me ideas like, Hey, can I do this podcast with you called Moms Don't Have Time to blah, blah, blah. And that's kind of not how I do things. I mean, if it was a great idea, I would for sure think about it, but right now I'm sort of at capacity with what I can manage. And I just like to do it when I'm sort of inspired or when I find the right person to do it.
[00:19:22] Matty: I wanted to switch tacks to something that is probably not very inspirational, but especially in 2020, the production and distribution process for print books got pretty messed up. And, you know, there were all these stories about delays and I'm wondering how you handle that side of it for the anthology, and if you ran into problems and if you did how you overcame them.
[00:19:45] Zibby: Well, it came out in February. So by then things were working a little more smoothly. I did have to deal with it for my podcast in that I couldn't get any books for so long and I really prefer physical books to online galleys. I find I often forget I even have them because I put them in some folder on my emails and it sounds terrible to say, but if they're here, I'm like always looking at them and interacting with them and kind of getting to know my little book friends, but I can't do that virtually. So the e-book thing did affect me in that way. But I figured it out and it's been fine. I've figured it out.
[00:20:17] For my book, I just had lots of shipping delays, which drove me bananas. You know, UPS, and then UPS lost all my books. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And then there were two snowstorms as they tried to find them. And they were left and Philadelphia somewhere. And I was like, Oh my gosh. I was trying to make these cute little book boxes to send to some people. And I wanted to send all my past podcast guests a box and I was like, this is ridiculous. Now the book is coming out and none of my like early boxes are going to get there, but you know what? Woe is me. It would all worked out fine.
[00:20:46] Actually, I should say I did end up having COVID when I did my book lunch. so I ended up being in bed for that for nine days. So it didn't work out perfectly, but I did that too. You just like get over it.
[00:20:57] Matty: You had mentioned before about the losses that you had suffered, the personal losses. Can you talk a little bit about how the work either had to get done despite that, or was therapeutic to you? How did you work through that?
[00:21:12] Zibby: It was very therapeutic to me. I wrote about it the whole time because that's how I process really everything. So I was sharing on Instagram, the whole illness, cause Susan, my mother-in-law, was in the hospital for six weeks and we were in charge of her care and it was like a whole awful mess. And I posted about it because I became the person also in our extended family to give updates because my husband and his sister were, you know, such an emotional time and everybody kept asking them what was going on, in a nice way, but I was like, I'm going to send updates every day. So I did that.
[00:21:48] And then I shared my emotions and I continued to do that through Grief and that helped a lot, the outpouring. I mean, it also helped Susan. I mean, when she was in the hospital and I would post about it and she was still reading her Instagram. I'm like, Look how many people are praying for you today! And she loved it. She was like, this is amazing. So, anyway, so I did that. And then afterwards, I took a little time off, like a week or something, but yeah, then I jumped back into it because these conversations I have are often deep and healing and rejuvenating. I love them and I love the books and reading books helped me so much through this whole thing.
[00:22:24] Especially given that we were alone afterwards, right? We were in quarantine and I couldn't see my kids and they couldn't see their family. And it was tough. So yeah, I would wake up and sit there and read for two hours and you know, that's just what I do.
[00:22:40] Matty: You had mentioned earlier about how, when you were 12, you got to go to the Plaza and have tea. Who is the author you had tea with?
[00:22:46] Zibby: Her name was Zibby Oneal, and obviously we share the same unique first name. And my mom and I had discovered her books one day at a local bookstore here in New York city. and she wrote these beautiful middle grade books like The Language of Goldfish, which I just loved. And actually I found it. I have my original copy, I just found recently. Anyway she was one of many favorites I had growing up. But I reached out to her and my mom helped me find her address in the back of the book. And we wrote to her through her publisher. And then we had this long pen pal relationship. And I would be so excited when I would get these light blue envelopes with her script handwriting on them and know that you'd written me another note. And it was just so great. It made me feel so special. Like for me, authors have always been just like gods in a way. I'm like, How do they do that? And so that's literally what I get to do all day is be like, How do you do that?
[00:23:39] Matty: I think that because you were willing to write to an author when you were 12, you were sort of already prepped to be comfortable approaching big goals, I'll put it that way, but I'm wondering if you have any advice for people who are listening to this and saying, Oh man, I would love to put together an anthology, but you know, that's not for me. I would love to have a podcast, but that's not for me. If there are those ideas that people have, goals that people have, that are a bit of a stretch, do you have any advice for people about what they should do with those thoughts?
[00:24:11] Zibby: Look, life is short. If you want to do something, I would say, try it. What's the worst that happens? It's not going to be that bad. My daughter was sad about going to school today, for instance. She's like, What if I cry? And I'm like, Okay, what if you cry? Then eventually you'll stop crying and it's okay. The day will go on.
[00:24:29] So it's the same thing. Like what's the worst that happens if you start a podcast? What's the goal of the podcast? Why do you want to start a podcast? I'm starting lots of new podcasts. My goal is not to make them the most successful podcast ever. My goal is to entertain and help whoever's listening to them.
[00:24:44] So if that's your goal, just do it. And you don't have to broadcast it to the world. You can start quietly. When I started this podcast, I didn't tell anybody. I mean, I didn't hide it, but I like went into my bedroom and just found some random app. And I was like, okay, "easiest podcast ever" on Google. And that's how I started it.
[00:25:02] I mean, I always do lots of research, so I would say, figure out what you're doing and why, and what else has maybe out there. What can you bring to the table that might be different that might help people? What is it about your story or your voice or what you want to do that's going to help? And if it helps like two people and that's enough for you, great.
[00:25:22] I mean, I think people, if you start out and say, I want to produce an anthology, like if I had started out this whole thing and said, I want to start an anthology with all these amazing authors, how on earth would I have gone about that? I have no idea. It came out of all these other steps until it felt very natural and almost easy. So I would say start with the most natural first steps and see where it takes you. Don't jump to step number 12. Start with step number one, because you might end up like me, I mean, I've gone in this completely different direction than I ever expected. And it's brought me enormous joy and satisfaction. So, if I hadn't tried it that day in my room, I mean, it's just crazy, my life would be so different right now. and this like just happened three years ago.
[00:26:06] So I would say life is short. If there's no big downside to things like this, you know, I've tried to write books that didn't sell, rejection is just a part of it. And none of it is really all that big a deal. It's not that big a deal to try and fail, but I don't know, take it one step at a time. Try something fun. Try it quietly. Do your research. And give it a shot. Why not you?
[00:26:32] Matty: Yeah, I'm hearing all sorts of good alternatives to "pivoting to new opportunities." I think I'll be able to title the episode without having to use the word "pivot." Do what you love.
[00:26:41] Zibby: Yeah. Do what you love. Why not? Yeah. Call it "Why not?"
[00:26:46] Matty: I had read that you just announced a fellowship program for women authors and book awards. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:26:53] Zibby: Yes. I forgot to mention that. I launched a fellowship where I'm sponsoring two to four women memoir debut authors each year and providing them with an editor to help them get the manuscript ready to go or write the proposal or help them think through the project. And there's no required deliverable at the end. The four women I've chosen this year are all on different timelines and paths, but I'm honored to give them a chance to do it.
[00:27:21] And then I also started the Zibby Awards, which I think are really funny. That's the other thing is I try to do things with a sense of humor and none of this is like taking myself too seriously. This is not like medicine or anything, this is all fun, but so the Zibby Awards is an award show that I'm going to try to have broadcast somewhere or film it myself. And it's open now and I have award categories where you can nominate people for all different things that there are no awards for right now. So Best Dedication and Best Spine Design of a Book and Best Publicist and Best Literary Agent, Best Editor. I think I have Best End Papers. Best Plot Twist, Best Sex Scene. So now it's so great because every day I get to see who's entering the Zibby Awards and who they're nominating and why, and you know, the Best Opening Sentence. It's just so fun. So I'm hoping to do a little award ceremony in September or October.
[00:28:14] Matty: If people want to get more information about that, where would they go to find that?
[00:28:18] Zibby: Yes, people should nominate things that they love, parts of books, people in the industry who they love. All of the things we've talked about are on my website. ZibbyOwens.com and there's a whole Zibby Awards tab in the navigation. So it's pretty easy to find. And you can just search by vertical, all the things in the reading, the writing. I also have Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight because I gained all this weight in the pandemic and I started a podcast about that. So all of that is on my website. ZibbyOwens.com or follow me on Instagram @Zibby Owens because I'm always posting about all my crazy new ventures.
[00:28:48] Matty: Well, Zibby, thank you so much. This has been such an interesting conversation.
[00:28:52] Zibby: Oh, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
[00:03:31] Anyway, it was quite a journey and at the end of it, I've started a bunch of new things and a lot of good has emerged from basically being in touch with so many amazing people and authors and this community that I've built. But obviously the losses, and the loss to everybody in the world, are overpowering. So that was a synopsis.
[00:03:55] Matty: You're obviously very active in supporting the author community and doing authorial work yourself. So just to give a little further back background, what made you so interested in taking such an active role there?
[00:04:08] Zibby: I've always loved to read. I am a huge bookworm. I've always loved to write. When I was like 10 years old, I was writing letters to authors and I even went to tea once with one of my favorite authors at the Plaza when I was 12 years old, it was like the highlight of my life. So I've always just had this interest in the people behind the books and books themselves. But my life sort of had gone on different tangents. I was going to be a psychologist at one point. And then I worked in marketing and brand planning, and I was interested in consumer behavior and analyzing that. And I went to business school.
[00:04:41] And I've always written on the side. I've always read on the side. But those were just things for fun for me. And I had been doing more and more writing, especially after I got divorced I suddenly had a bunch of time on the weekends, every other weekend, that I didn't use to have, that was sort of silent and very odd after the chaos of four kids for a long time.
[00:05:04] So I finally had time to go back to my own writing, which I've always loved to do, particularly in essay format. And I wrote an essay called "A Mother's Right to Sanity" for HuffPost, which went slightly viral and really encouraged me to keep writing. So I did a bunch of parenting essays and it was my husband who suggested I try to make them into a book and I was like, moms don't have time to read books.
[00:05:28] And so I ended up starting this podcast, which was a suggestion of a girlfriend of mine, another author, who thought it would be fun for me. And at first I thought I would use the platform just to read the things I loved. Cause I'm always ripping things out and forwarding great articles, and recommending books and blah, blah, blah. But I realized that I couldn't read those excerpts and all of that without getting legal approvals. So it was really like, Well, why don't I try interviewing authors? Let's just give it a shot. I knew a handful of authors. And one thing led to another after I launched it, and I got great guests and I realized I loved what I was doing. I get so much joy from it every day. And it just took off from there.
[00:06:10] Matty: How are you finding the move from more in-person events to online events is affecting your creative life?
[00:06:19] Zibby: I'm actually able to do a lot more. I can fit two interviews in an hour instead of one. And I'm getting access to people who live all over the world. So I can do a podcast with somebody in New Zealand and hang up for that and then do a podcast with someone in Nigeria and then London. And it's like all in a day's work. So it's really amazing for me in that way, that there are no barriers or boundaries geographically for the types of authors who I talk to.
[00:06:47] And I don't mind it. I don't mind the Zoom interview situation. I obviously prefer, I mean, what a treat it would be to actually sit next to a person and talk to them. But after a year or 13 months of this, I've gotten used to the way this is. And I did use to do some virtual interviews before, so it's not like it was brand new for me.
[00:07:06] And my team before the pandemic, we had Zooms for our meetings, so I've always worked from home since I've had kids in one way or another. So it's not so out of the ordinary for me to be living this way. As long as I can connect to lots of people, whether it's in my living room or I'm on a packed Zoom screen for a book club, as long as I can sort of get that feeling, I feel good.
[00:07:29] Matty: You had mentioned the "Moms Don't Have Time to ..." quarantine anthology. Could you talk a little bit more about that and what brought that about?
[00:07:37] Zibby: I would love to talk more about that. Yes, that's my anthology. It came out in February and it includes 60 plus essays all by authors who have been on my podcast. And I divided the essays into five categories. Moms Don't Have Time to Eat, Work Out, Breathe, Have Sex, and Read. And authors wrote essays inspired by those topics. Not about the fact that they didn't have time, but inspired broadly by the topic of eating or the topic of relationships.
[00:08:04] And the essays were so good. They were all written during the pandemic or right before the pandemic or it was all towards the beginning, because they finished coming out by July of last year. And as I mentioned, they were originally on my website and then I sort of copied and pasted them one day in September into one document and realized that I had a book-length manuscript. So decided to just sell that.
[00:08:26] And now I have another anthology coming out with new authors, all new from the first one, writing on five more topics. And these ones are Moms Don't Have Time to Sleep ... let's see if I can get them right ... Sleep, Write, See Friends, Get Sick, and Lose Weight. So those are another almost 50 authors writing on those topics, which I love.
[00:08:48] And then I started Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a Medium publication, so that it's not just authors from my podcast who write, but everybody who wants to write personal essays, mostly inspired by common themes. So now we have a grief column: Moms Don't Have Time to Grieve, Moms Don't Have Time to Travel. Moms Don't Have Time to Have Sex is starting soon. And then just the general personal essay column.
[00:09:09] Matty: What was the impetus behind you originally asking for those contributions that ended up in the anthology?
[00:09:15] Zibby: I wanted to start a big, fancy website, like Goop or something, where I would have these categories and people would write for the categories, and I wanted it designed and whatever. It's actually ending up to be something similar to Moms Don't Have Time to Write, which is what I've started now. But at the time, that's what I wanted to do. So last January in 2020, I emailed, at that point I think there were like maybe 300 authors who had been on my show, and I just emailed them all, and I was like, Hey, I'm starting this thing. I'd love for you all to write if anybody is interested. And about 60 of them were like, I'm in. Anything you're doing, I want to do. And they ended up in the book.
[00:09:57] So now I've had, I don't know, 650-some-odd authors I've interviewed. So I could fill a lot of anthologies if everybody wanted to write, which would be amazing, but we'll see.
[00:10:08] Matty: It seems as if some of the things you had mentioned before, like you had thought about studying psychology, you had had some marketing experience, some consumer behavior interest or study, how did you factor that into the anthology or other aspects of your business?
[00:10:24] Zibby: I did not factor any of it in. Now it's crazy to me because what I'm doing is so perfect. It's such a perfect blend of everything. And I could not have made this up. I mean, I didn't even try to do this. I didn't have the vision at the day one to see exactly where this was all headed. I've done one thing after another and each thing inspires me to do another few things. So it's just turned out that where I am now, I basically turned this into a company called Moms Don't Have Time to, and I have my own little team and lots of plans and exciting things and everything else. It has turned out to use it, but I didn't start this venture with a business plan.
[00:11:06] I didn't start it saying here's where I want this to go. I started with, I love doing this podcast and I don't know where it's going to go, but I love it. So I'm just going to keep doing it and see what happens. And then one thing has led to another. So I don't think I could have planned it. And obviously could never have foreseen in the past year, which really changed what I wanted to provide to people and the way in which I did it.
[00:11:30] And the need that people had for content. I think that one of the things that makes me feel really good is when people tell me that throughout the pandemic, I was like a lifeline for them because they turned on my IG Live show every day at 11, or they listened to my podcasts every day on their walks, and they felt that they were connecting and learning and listening, and that makes me feel so good. So who knew? I mean, I certainly didn't know. I certainly didn't try to do this. But now I am trying to do new things all the time because I'm like so excited about it. So yeah, it is a perfect blend.
[00:12:01] People are like, How do you find time to do all this? And I'm like, well, everything I'm doing, I love. I mean, sometimes I have an accounting meeting coming up that I don't love, but most of the things I do related to this whole venture, I absolutely love, and I would do if I didn't have to do them and I don't have to do them cause I'm making this all up as I go. So, it's just amazing. And the people I've met and the connections I make between them makes me feel so good. And I'm really happy about it.
[00:12:27] Matty: When an idea comes to you, do you have some formal or informal emotional or business based criteria for saying, Yes, this is something I want to give a try?
[00:12:37] Zibby: I talked to my husband about it. I'm like, what do you think about this? He's the first person. Yeah, that's my main criteria. We talk about it and I see if I can try it and what I would need to do it and is it a risk? My philosophy is kind of testing things out, so I'm just going to try it, right?
[00:12:53] Like we just started this new podcast called Wake Up and Write, which just has the advice to aspiring authors that I have in all my interviews. So it's like a two minute short form podcast. Let's try it. I don't know. Do people want a two minute podcast? Maybe they don't, but maybe they do. Maybe there's a subset of people who that's going to help them wake up and write every morning. And how great is that?
[00:13:12] So it's sort of an informal process. How much time and resources this is going to take? Is this going to cost any money? I mean, a lot of this is very low cost. I'm not manufacturing sneakers or something. It's like I'm doing another podcast. It's the cost of hosting basically. So, they're mostly low risk endeavors.
[00:13:30] Now, there are some bigger things. I started Moms Don't Have Time to Travel and I'm trying to plan this big retreat in November. And all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, like this is becoming like a really big deal. I better be careful about this. So I do weigh in my head, what is this doing for my brand, and what could I be doing with that time if I were to not spend it on this new thing? I want to do the retreat, but how many hours? It's already taken me a lot hours to plan it.
[00:13:55] What would I be doing if I weren't focusing on the retreat? Would I be working on my work? Because I also am writing a memoir that I sold and that announcement to come and I'm recording the audio book for my first book. And I'm doing lots of writing myself still. I write the GMA--Good Morning America--I pick the books each month and write up an article for them. And I write for Thrive Global now. All these places now are asking me to write, and it's like my dream come true. So am I taking away time from that? Am I taking away time from reading books to make my podcast better? So I have to evaluate where they fit in my time and cost.
[00:14:28] And how much fun I'll have. What am I getting out of it? Like, you know what, yeah, this retreat's going to take a lot of time, but I'm really excited about it. So maybe it's worth it. So I guess there's the fun factor as well.
[00:14:40] Matty: You had mentioned that you have a team that you work with. How do you decide how you manage your team? What work you want to do yourself? What work you ask them to do when it's maybe time to bring a new team member on?
[00:14:52] Zibby: Yeah, I've been going through a lot of that lately. This has not been the area that I am the strongest in is management because I kind of like to do everything myself. And I've tried different iterations of teams, what skillset do I need? What would help me the most? So again, unfortunately, I've tried a bunch of things, which in this case is people, working with different people, all of whom I really like as people, but some of whom have not worked out for the organization.
[00:15:18] And now I actually think I have a great setup. I'm really excited. I've organized it by vertical. So I have someone, this woman Jess Hayes is running the travel vertical, and this woman, Sherri Puzey, is running the Moms Don't Have Time to Grieve vertical. I have Jordan Blumetti, who's amazing. He's running Moms Don't Have Time to Write. I have an editorial assistant who helps on that, but also everything else. And then I have my head of operations / Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books schedulers / the person who makes sure I show up where I need to be. She's amazing, and it's changed everything. Her name is Chelsea. And I have a social media person. And a publicist, so I just have a new publicist on board who is great. Oh, and someone helps with all the technical stuff. And then I have sound editors for the podcast, and everyone sort of serves a function.
[00:16:04] And I have such a great group of people right now. And also, the way I've done it from the beginning, I don't know why I started doing this, but this is just the way it's always been is I have a lot of people part-time. I have two, I think, full-time employees. And then I have people doing part-time work and contract work and maybe they have other jobs and that's totally fine. So that's the way I've sort of structured it. Nobody comes in ... actually Chelsea has now started coming in once a week, which I love, but nobody has to be here. People live all over the country. So, it's always been a sort of virtual organization. So, we'll see. I mean, this is really working right now. I also think having people who are as passionate or close to as passionate as me about what we're doing is really important because we have to be excited about it.
[00:16:43] Matty: Have you ever had to ask someone to unjoin the team because they were technically competent but were not bringing that sense of fun that you've mentioned a couple of times is obviously very important to you.
[00:16:56] Zibby: It's never been that clear cut, but yes, I've had to let go of many people.
[00:17:02] I mean, not that many, but yeah, a bunch of people as I've tried different iterations. You know, before the pandemic, I was trying to build up the team. And then during the pandemic, I was like, this doesn't make any sense anymore. I don't need someone for events when I'm not having events. So things like that. But, no, I've never let anyone go cause they're not having enough fun.
[00:17:21] But people are so complicated. Everybody's so multi-faceted, so I couldn't just isolate it to one variable. But I will say everyone I've worked with, I really like as people. So, it's been very hard to say, You know what, this isn't working right now for the business.
[00:17:34] But I'm on pretty good terms with most people who have come and gone, because I think everyone knows I'm just trying to sort this out. Like it is a startup, really. It wasn't even a business. It was just a podcast. Now I finally am like, this is actually a business. So I probably made a bazillion mistakes, but every day I try something and hope it works better.
[00:17:56] Matty: Do you enjoy having a team of people around you or do you see it as a necessary means to the ends of your looking for?
[00:18:02] Zibby: No, I'm loving the people I'm working with now because they're all bringing such interesting things to the mix. And they're really great. So, no, it's not a means to an end. No, I don't see it that way. I really am enjoying the people I'm working with now. And they're all bringing something that I couldn't bring or do as well. I've really been trying hard to find people who are better than me at lots of things. Not that that's so hard, not like I'm like this perfect person, but Chelsea for instance, I thought I was really organized. Like she's so organized. It's amazing. So I'm learning from her.
[00:18:35] And you know, with the Grief and Travel already, and those positions are really brand new, and they weren't positions I ever tried to fill. This is how everything keeps happening. It's just like, Oh, this should be done. And this is the perfect person for it. Like I'm starting this podcast this week called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Sex. And I didn't mean to start that, but I interviewed this sex expert, and I was like, Oh my gosh, you're hilarious. We have to do this podcast together. So that's how I'm launching that. And she's amazing. I adore her name is Tracy Cox.
[00:19:02] So that's just how I'm doing it. And sometimes people pitch me ideas like, Hey, can I do this podcast with you called Moms Don't Have Time to blah, blah, blah. And that's kind of not how I do things. I mean, if it was a great idea, I would for sure think about it, but right now I'm sort of at capacity with what I can manage. And I just like to do it when I'm sort of inspired or when I find the right person to do it.
[00:19:22] Matty: I wanted to switch tacks to something that is probably not very inspirational, but especially in 2020, the production and distribution process for print books got pretty messed up. And, you know, there were all these stories about delays and I'm wondering how you handle that side of it for the anthology, and if you ran into problems and if you did how you overcame them.
[00:19:45] Zibby: Well, it came out in February. So by then things were working a little more smoothly. I did have to deal with it for my podcast in that I couldn't get any books for so long and I really prefer physical books to online galleys. I find I often forget I even have them because I put them in some folder on my emails and it sounds terrible to say, but if they're here, I'm like always looking at them and interacting with them and kind of getting to know my little book friends, but I can't do that virtually. So the e-book thing did affect me in that way. But I figured it out and it's been fine. I've figured it out.
[00:20:17] For my book, I just had lots of shipping delays, which drove me bananas. You know, UPS, and then UPS lost all my books. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And then there were two snowstorms as they tried to find them. And they were left and Philadelphia somewhere. And I was like, Oh my gosh. I was trying to make these cute little book boxes to send to some people. And I wanted to send all my past podcast guests a box and I was like, this is ridiculous. Now the book is coming out and none of my like early boxes are going to get there, but you know what? Woe is me. It would all worked out fine.
[00:20:46] Actually, I should say I did end up having COVID when I did my book lunch. so I ended up being in bed for that for nine days. So it didn't work out perfectly, but I did that too. You just like get over it.
[00:20:57] Matty: You had mentioned before about the losses that you had suffered, the personal losses. Can you talk a little bit about how the work either had to get done despite that, or was therapeutic to you? How did you work through that?
[00:21:12] Zibby: It was very therapeutic to me. I wrote about it the whole time because that's how I process really everything. So I was sharing on Instagram, the whole illness, cause Susan, my mother-in-law, was in the hospital for six weeks and we were in charge of her care and it was like a whole awful mess. And I posted about it because I became the person also in our extended family to give updates because my husband and his sister were, you know, such an emotional time and everybody kept asking them what was going on, in a nice way, but I was like, I'm going to send updates every day. So I did that.
[00:21:48] And then I shared my emotions and I continued to do that through Grief and that helped a lot, the outpouring. I mean, it also helped Susan. I mean, when she was in the hospital and I would post about it and she was still reading her Instagram. I'm like, Look how many people are praying for you today! And she loved it. She was like, this is amazing. So, anyway, so I did that. And then afterwards, I took a little time off, like a week or something, but yeah, then I jumped back into it because these conversations I have are often deep and healing and rejuvenating. I love them and I love the books and reading books helped me so much through this whole thing.
[00:22:24] Especially given that we were alone afterwards, right? We were in quarantine and I couldn't see my kids and they couldn't see their family. And it was tough. So yeah, I would wake up and sit there and read for two hours and you know, that's just what I do.
[00:22:40] Matty: You had mentioned earlier about how, when you were 12, you got to go to the Plaza and have tea. Who is the author you had tea with?
[00:22:46] Zibby: Her name was Zibby Oneal, and obviously we share the same unique first name. And my mom and I had discovered her books one day at a local bookstore here in New York city. and she wrote these beautiful middle grade books like The Language of Goldfish, which I just loved. And actually I found it. I have my original copy, I just found recently. Anyway she was one of many favorites I had growing up. But I reached out to her and my mom helped me find her address in the back of the book. And we wrote to her through her publisher. And then we had this long pen pal relationship. And I would be so excited when I would get these light blue envelopes with her script handwriting on them and know that you'd written me another note. And it was just so great. It made me feel so special. Like for me, authors have always been just like gods in a way. I'm like, How do they do that? And so that's literally what I get to do all day is be like, How do you do that?
[00:23:39] Matty: I think that because you were willing to write to an author when you were 12, you were sort of already prepped to be comfortable approaching big goals, I'll put it that way, but I'm wondering if you have any advice for people who are listening to this and saying, Oh man, I would love to put together an anthology, but you know, that's not for me. I would love to have a podcast, but that's not for me. If there are those ideas that people have, goals that people have, that are a bit of a stretch, do you have any advice for people about what they should do with those thoughts?
[00:24:11] Zibby: Look, life is short. If you want to do something, I would say, try it. What's the worst that happens? It's not going to be that bad. My daughter was sad about going to school today, for instance. She's like, What if I cry? And I'm like, Okay, what if you cry? Then eventually you'll stop crying and it's okay. The day will go on.
[00:24:29] So it's the same thing. Like what's the worst that happens if you start a podcast? What's the goal of the podcast? Why do you want to start a podcast? I'm starting lots of new podcasts. My goal is not to make them the most successful podcast ever. My goal is to entertain and help whoever's listening to them.
[00:24:44] So if that's your goal, just do it. And you don't have to broadcast it to the world. You can start quietly. When I started this podcast, I didn't tell anybody. I mean, I didn't hide it, but I like went into my bedroom and just found some random app. And I was like, okay, "easiest podcast ever" on Google. And that's how I started it.
[00:25:02] I mean, I always do lots of research, so I would say, figure out what you're doing and why, and what else has maybe out there. What can you bring to the table that might be different that might help people? What is it about your story or your voice or what you want to do that's going to help? And if it helps like two people and that's enough for you, great.
[00:25:22] I mean, I think people, if you start out and say, I want to produce an anthology, like if I had started out this whole thing and said, I want to start an anthology with all these amazing authors, how on earth would I have gone about that? I have no idea. It came out of all these other steps until it felt very natural and almost easy. So I would say start with the most natural first steps and see where it takes you. Don't jump to step number 12. Start with step number one, because you might end up like me, I mean, I've gone in this completely different direction than I ever expected. And it's brought me enormous joy and satisfaction. So, if I hadn't tried it that day in my room, I mean, it's just crazy, my life would be so different right now. and this like just happened three years ago.
[00:26:06] So I would say life is short. If there's no big downside to things like this, you know, I've tried to write books that didn't sell, rejection is just a part of it. And none of it is really all that big a deal. It's not that big a deal to try and fail, but I don't know, take it one step at a time. Try something fun. Try it quietly. Do your research. And give it a shot. Why not you?
[00:26:32] Matty: Yeah, I'm hearing all sorts of good alternatives to "pivoting to new opportunities." I think I'll be able to title the episode without having to use the word "pivot." Do what you love.
[00:26:41] Zibby: Yeah. Do what you love. Why not? Yeah. Call it "Why not?"
[00:26:46] Matty: I had read that you just announced a fellowship program for women authors and book awards. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:26:53] Zibby: Yes. I forgot to mention that. I launched a fellowship where I'm sponsoring two to four women memoir debut authors each year and providing them with an editor to help them get the manuscript ready to go or write the proposal or help them think through the project. And there's no required deliverable at the end. The four women I've chosen this year are all on different timelines and paths, but I'm honored to give them a chance to do it.
[00:27:21] And then I also started the Zibby Awards, which I think are really funny. That's the other thing is I try to do things with a sense of humor and none of this is like taking myself too seriously. This is not like medicine or anything, this is all fun, but so the Zibby Awards is an award show that I'm going to try to have broadcast somewhere or film it myself. And it's open now and I have award categories where you can nominate people for all different things that there are no awards for right now. So Best Dedication and Best Spine Design of a Book and Best Publicist and Best Literary Agent, Best Editor. I think I have Best End Papers. Best Plot Twist, Best Sex Scene. So now it's so great because every day I get to see who's entering the Zibby Awards and who they're nominating and why, and you know, the Best Opening Sentence. It's just so fun. So I'm hoping to do a little award ceremony in September or October.
[00:28:14] Matty: If people want to get more information about that, where would they go to find that?
[00:28:18] Zibby: Yes, people should nominate things that they love, parts of books, people in the industry who they love. All of the things we've talked about are on my website. ZibbyOwens.com and there's a whole Zibby Awards tab in the navigation. So it's pretty easy to find. And you can just search by vertical, all the things in the reading, the writing. I also have Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight because I gained all this weight in the pandemic and I started a podcast about that. So all of that is on my website. ZibbyOwens.com or follow me on Instagram @Zibby Owens because I'm always posting about all my crazy new ventures.
[00:28:48] Matty: Well, Zibby, thank you so much. This has been such an interesting conversation.
[00:28:52] Zibby: Oh, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
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