Episode 099 - Connecting with Fans through Merchandising with AL Jackson
September 28, 2021
A.L. (Amy) Jackson discusses CONNECTING WITH FANS THROUGH MERCHANDISING. She talks about considerations for using merch to strengthen ties with existing fans and to connect with new fans; what merch has worked best for her (including her fabulous book launch boxes); the logistics of design, sales, and distribution; and the factors that impact whether merch can be an income-earning as well as reader connection effort.
A.L. Jackson is the New York Times & USA Today Bestselling author of contemporary romance. She writes emotional, sexy, heart-filled stories about boys who usually like to be a little bit bad. If she’s not writing, you can find her hanging out by the pool with her family, sipping cocktails with her friends, or of course with her nose buried in a book.
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[00:00:00] Matty: Hello, and welcome to The Indy Author Podcast. Today, my guest is AL Jackson. Hey Amy, how are you doing?
[00:00:06] Amy: I'm doing great. How are you?
[00:00:08] Matty: I'm doing great, thank you. To give our listeners a little bit of background on you, AL Jackson is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of contemporary romance. She writes emotional, sexy, heartfelt stories about boys who usually like to be a little bit bad. If she's not writing, you can find her hanging out by the pool with her family, sipping cocktails with her friends, or of course, with her nose buried in a book.
[00:00:29] And we're going to be talking today about connecting with fans through merchandising. And this was actually a topic and a guest that was recommended by Lisa Reagan, so thank you to Lisa who has been the source for several of my popular guests on the podcast. And so Amy, before we get started on diving into the merchandising, I thought it would be interesting to find out what were other ways that you had tried or are trying to connect with fans, create fans outside of merchandising?
[00:01:00] Amy: Definitely, when I first started writing, Twitter was very popular, so that's where I grew my first fan base, was just through tweeting out little blurbs and quotes from my books. And I built up that way, and then Facebook was taking over, transitioning right at that period of time. And so really, I built my fan base initially through social media. And I have remained at doing that. Like I continue to interact a lot with fans through all social media platforms, and I have a fairly large reader group, which is where I spend most of my time at this point, which is on Facebook. And it's just a little bit more intimate because people ask to join and then they're able to post there. And you can see their posts rather than like if somebody goes to your page, they're really only seeing what you're posting. In the group, they're able to interact together as well. So it just creates more of a tight-knit group. So I focus a lot of energy on that.
[00:01:45] And then also through my newsletter, having like through social media, people signing up for that and making sure I put a lot of special things into my newsletter that they're only receiving there. So those are my main areas where I'm focusing.
[00:01:56] Matty: I'm going to selfishly ask a little bit more about the reader's group, because that's something that I started. I talked about that with, Jason Kasper, I'll include a link in the show notes to that episode, but Jason had had great success with having a private Facebook group. So how are you directing people. Is it a funnel? You get them on your public Facebook page and then you funnel them into the private group? How are you populating that private group?
[00:02:20] Amy: We do a link in the back of the books. So I invite them, once they finished, so if I've had a new reader through an ad, that way they know how to connect with me on social media. First is newsletter and then the reader group. So I ask them, "For an intimate setting, join me here in the Amy's Angels." So I make it very personalized, you know, it says it's a reader group, but the main thing is they actually have a title as well to be in there. So we do it through that way.
[00:00:06] Amy: I'm doing great. How are you?
[00:00:08] Matty: I'm doing great, thank you. To give our listeners a little bit of background on you, AL Jackson is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of contemporary romance. She writes emotional, sexy, heartfelt stories about boys who usually like to be a little bit bad. If she's not writing, you can find her hanging out by the pool with her family, sipping cocktails with her friends, or of course, with her nose buried in a book.
[00:00:29] And we're going to be talking today about connecting with fans through merchandising. And this was actually a topic and a guest that was recommended by Lisa Reagan, so thank you to Lisa who has been the source for several of my popular guests on the podcast. And so Amy, before we get started on diving into the merchandising, I thought it would be interesting to find out what were other ways that you had tried or are trying to connect with fans, create fans outside of merchandising?
[00:01:00] Amy: Definitely, when I first started writing, Twitter was very popular, so that's where I grew my first fan base, was just through tweeting out little blurbs and quotes from my books. And I built up that way, and then Facebook was taking over, transitioning right at that period of time. And so really, I built my fan base initially through social media. And I have remained at doing that. Like I continue to interact a lot with fans through all social media platforms, and I have a fairly large reader group, which is where I spend most of my time at this point, which is on Facebook. And it's just a little bit more intimate because people ask to join and then they're able to post there. And you can see their posts rather than like if somebody goes to your page, they're really only seeing what you're posting. In the group, they're able to interact together as well. So it just creates more of a tight-knit group. So I focus a lot of energy on that.
[00:01:45] And then also through my newsletter, having like through social media, people signing up for that and making sure I put a lot of special things into my newsletter that they're only receiving there. So those are my main areas where I'm focusing.
[00:01:56] Matty: I'm going to selfishly ask a little bit more about the reader's group, because that's something that I started. I talked about that with, Jason Kasper, I'll include a link in the show notes to that episode, but Jason had had great success with having a private Facebook group. So how are you directing people. Is it a funnel? You get them on your public Facebook page and then you funnel them into the private group? How are you populating that private group?
[00:02:20] Amy: We do a link in the back of the books. So I invite them, once they finished, so if I've had a new reader through an ad, that way they know how to connect with me on social media. First is newsletter and then the reader group. So I ask them, "For an intimate setting, join me here in the Amy's Angels." So I make it very personalized, you know, it says it's a reader group, but the main thing is they actually have a title as well to be in there. So we do it through that way.
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[00:02:41] And then also I get invited to a lot of release parties or we do giveaways celebrating other authors who have releases. And so one of the entries is inviting them to join the group as well. So just filtering in the different areas I'm at on social media, letting them know about it and inviting them there, doing giveaways. And there are a lot of people that they're just there for the giveaway, but that's okay. It's still has built and grown, and I have gotten new readers through them coming into that group just to win something. And that's not a negative thing, we do giveaways too. You know, you're going to get a small percentage of those people become readers.
[00:03:15] And so people that just have gotten into that group and found it fun or interesting, and like some of the snippets that I put in there, and they became avid readers and fans. So, I like to call them friends. So it has been really great. I have a really great group. we only talk books, and we don't do anything negative in there. And so I've just cultivated an area where people can go to feel good rather than, they're not going to see people complaining about things. There's lots of places you can do that, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but in that group, we don't do that. And so it's just like a really fun, encouraging place to be.
[00:03:47] Matty: Do you have to actively moderate to ensure that kind of environment?
[00:03:53] Amy: Very rarely. And when you join, there's actually rules of the group, so it clearly states what you can and cannot. And so I have a couple of people that watch it, a couple on my ARC team. They'll let me know if there's a post in there that goes against the rules, and we'll just go in and delete it and block the person. We don't even really get into it. We just delete, block, and that way we don't have to make a thing about it. Those kinds of posts are gone as quickly as they show up.
[00:04:15] Matty: That's great advice. I have a reader group and it hasn't been around that long. And in the scheme of what people post on social media, this barely registered, but I got the first post that I was like, oh, I wish somebody hadn't put that and I was unsure about what to do about it. It was so innocuous that I wouldn't have done anything anyway, but I think that advice about just delete and block without making a thing about it is really good advice.
[00:04:37] Amy: Yeah. And there's a couple of times where you know, because we do talk books and that's probably the slippery slope we have in there, because I asked them not to talk negatively about any specific authors. And there have been posts where somebody's oh, I really wanted to love this book, but I didn't because she's one of my favorite authors. And then in the comments, it can get a little bit like, oh yeah, I hated this book. And I'm like, oh, we don't put some author's name on here and then say we hated the book, that kind of thing. So that's hard because a lot of times they can be really active members of the group. And so in that case, I will go on and I'll usually just delete the post and say, "Hey guys, I know we're really passionate about books, but remember a lot of these authors are my friends and they can see these posts so just be careful of what you're saying in here."
[00:05:15] Matty: That's great advice. One thing that popped into my head, when you described your readers group as an intimate place called "Amy's Angels." Do you ever have anybody showing up thinking it's going to be something different than it is?
[00:05:28] Amy: I don't think so, because they have to agree to all the rules when they go in there. We have to approve them to be a member, so we'll look and if it looks like they are part of the reader world, that it just gives you that feeling that maybe that person is not going to be a benefit to the group, we would just not even let them in there, just because we don't want, we have had a couple of like porn things pop up and stuff like that.
[00:05:46] So we try to be really careful about who is coming into the group. It's literally for people that know my books and love books. They don't even have to be a reader of mine; they just have to be book fans.
[00:05:58] Matty: So that's great background for the context. And Lisa had recommended you particularly because she felt you had done a great job on the merchandising front. So what made you start thinking about having merchandise be something you wanted to use to connect with these friends who are reading your books?
[00:06:14] Amy: Well, I don't even know how we got so deeply involved, because it grew over time. So when I first started, I didn't even have paperbacks on hand or anything like that other than for family that wanted copies and that sort of thing. So I didn't have a website that I was selling them. And then, my daughter had interned for me when she was going to the University of Arizona, and she was getting a Marketing degree.
[00:06:35] So when she had been doing that, she was like, "okay, let's get a website up for you, and we can sell them", because people were wanting signed copies. And so she was able to facilitate that and create a thing where we could do the shipping and all of that through the website and allow people to order. So I think it just grew as time went on because we would go to signings and people would want swag from the table, and so you'd have these cute little things that were key chains and bookmarks and really inexpensive things to produce that you would just give away.
[00:07:01] And it just grew from there. It was like, oh, I'd love a t-shirt. You know, I had a group of readers show up that had shirts made that said "Amy's Angels" on them and they wore them around the whole time. So it just was like, oh, and then other people were like, I want one of those shirts! So then we ended up getting some shirts on the website. So it really just progressively grew from there. And then as box subscriptions became popular, not even necessarily in the book world, which they grew into that as well, but like just in general, people love the boxes.
[00:07:25] So when we have a new release, we have a box that comes out with that they're able to order it. And it has everything themed for the book.
[00:07:32] Matty: Can you describe what one of those boxes is or what it includes?
[00:07:36] Amy: So I actually have one that's going out this week and I don't think this will air before then, so it's a surprise box, I don't think any readers will see it, but this time we have, we try to put different stuff in at each time and make it usable and fun, but also theme it with the books, so it's romantic and bookish at the same time. So I try not to put a lot of paper products because that gets expensive, just printing and that's one of the things I know we'll get into that in the cost of merchandising, but I mostly focused on trying to have some larger products in there, so they get a signed paperback. And then with this one, there is a book bag, but it's like an actual corduroy bag with a heavy strap that can be adjusted. It's actually like a bag that you could take to the library and fit heavy books in. And so that it matches, it's black to go with the cover. And then we have an insulated tumbler that has the logo of the club where the book takes place at. So it just looks like you bought it at the club.
[00:08:25] There's a little spot where it says AL Jackson, but literally for the readers to be like, oh, I was at Absolution. So they get that and then there's a little book, really cute key chain and like a metal keychain, it says, "Book Lover" and it has like some charms on it. So it's something that I usually try to put something very specific just for book lovers in there as well.
[00:08:41] And then I always do a theme, like a quote from the book. So they also get a notebook with the quotes, "I love you to the highest mountain". And that's like the quote for the book what's signed inside the book. So that's on top of the notebook, and then they also have a little picture frame that says that so they can put it on their desk. And then there's a pen and a bookmark and little goodies like that.
[00:08:58] Matty: Oh, my goodness, that is extremely elaborate! I don't think I've ever seen such an elaborate offering.
[00:09:05] Amy: I am doing it very elaborate and it's probably the one thing that we really don't make much money on because I just want, literally just a collector's item for my fans, who are really excited for a new book to come out.
[00:09:14] Matty: So can I ask how many of those you prepare
[00:09:18] Amy: We do a hundred as our max because it takes weeks to prepare them.
[00:09:23] Matty: I think an overarching question about merchandising is, are you doing it as a thank you to existing fans and friends, or you're doing it to attract new people?
[00:09:32] And I've got to believe that the boxes are something that's more a thank you to existing fans and friends, because they're the ones who are going to be the most excited about those offerings is that the case?
[00:09:43] Amy: Yes, it's definitely the case. We have some small pieces like book lover mugs and different stuff like that, that we have on Etsy.
[00:09:50] But really, the people that go to my website are people that already have read me and are typically looking for a specific piece. And we do post it on social media, so I do see, you know, people will see, but they usually already know who I am. They may not be a reader of mine, but they might see something that's cute, but they already know who I am so I'm not really reaching new readers by posting merchandise. I'm sure there's been a handful that have come along that way, but I doubt that it's something that is drawing new readers to me.
[00:10:15] Matty: And the 100 boxes that you get for a new launch, are any of those reserved as giveaways, or are they all sold to fans?
[00:10:23] Amy: They're sold. They sell out so fast. So we do the cover reveal, we put up the box order and then people just, it's funny, literally, we'll put it live on the website and people start buying it. They're waiting for it to go up there, so it's kind of fun.
[00:10:35] Matty: That is really fun. This is one of these things where it's always dangerous to apply one's own preferences when deciding how to reach out to readers. And I'm just at an era in my life where I don't want more stuff, you know? And so whenever I try to think of things that I want to offer people, I'm picking the things that I myself would be interested in. So when you were talking about your thermal mug, one of the things I have, for example, I have an Indy Author mug and I can get drinks of water very carefully so that people can see my logo.
[00:11:06] But one of the things that I had gotten really just for myself and a couple of close friends, as my third novel had an aviation theme and there was a fictional airport in it called Avondale Airport. And so I made a logo, like you were saying, it looks like the club in the book. And I made one, it says Avondale Airport Falcon Flight Services, which is a reference to the book. And it's really just an in-group with the pilots. My husband is a pilot, the other pilots who helped me out with the book, it was almost a nod to them because they're the only ones who are going to realize that there's not really an Avondale Airport.
[00:11:43] I
[00:11:43] Amy: think that's fantastic, and I think readers love that, they love having something. So when they get this box and they open it, they're not going to know what Absolution is until they read the book and it makes it a part of them. So I think that's that same idea, and I think that's a great thing.
[00:11:57] Matty: I think that also that idea of the fictional world leaking into the real world is super fun. You know, they're going to be somewhere or someone's going to ask them, oh, have you been to the Absolution Club? They could say, why, yes, I have!
[00:12:10] Amy: Yes. Yes, I am, yes. Trina is waiting for them there. So, you know, because romance is fantasy, so I think it just it lends itself to that, that you're a part of that world and readers really love that.
[00:12:20] And so that's why I try to mix in things that'll be fun, and about the book, but also something useful, so that's why we have the book bag in there because now they purchased this box and it's not inexpensive, but they have like actual useful things, between the bag and the tumbler, if you bought that at the store, you would already have paid for the box, plus they get the book and so we try to make it really cool and I never want somebody to purchase the box and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I wasted that money on this. So I try to wow them every single time that they open a box.
[00:12:46] Matty: Do you ever feel like you're having trouble topping a previous one?
[00:12:51] Amy: Absolutely! Every time, we're always searching for new products and because it can be hard because when you do logos, one of the issues is a lot of the companies that will put a logo on something and it's really intended to be swag, something that you're giving away. So while it can be expensive, it also may not be as valuable as, you know what I mean? If you get something that's like plastic that costs you $5 to put a logo on it, and it's something that they're going to throw away because they don't see a value in it. So that's something that you have to be really careful about. So we're constantly searching for things that are quality.
[00:13:22] And we started making a lot of our products, which, is a big production, so that is something that I feel like we got in over our heads a little bit on, just to be like, so we actually make the tumblers? We do the pressing for them, we press our mugs, press our zipper bags, we do a lot of that. So we bought like the equipment to be able to do that. And it's a lot of work. It's much better, it's nicer stuff. So you have to balance, if you have a full-time staff and they're doing that, then that's okay, but if you're trying to write and you want to be doing that stuff, I don't think it's worth it to do that. I don't think that balances out to be in your favor.
[00:13:56] Matty: Well, when you were talking about describing how nice the bag was, I thought there are plenty of places where you can go and you get the sleazy bag and you're right, a lot of those probably end up in the trash. And so when you're deciding that you want to offer a premium product like that, how do you go about weighing the cost of producing it versus the quantitative and qualitative benefits you're going to get out of it?
[00:14:23] Amy: So basically, what we do is we set a budget for the box, and we basically do that for all of our products. If you go to my website, you'll see there's all kinds of things that you can purchase on there. Because anytime you're in merchandising, if you look at the amounts that you're supposed to charge, really, it's like the 50% mark-up If you're running like a little boutique and you have scarves and notebooks and purses, basically you're doing 50% on those products.
[00:14:47] So we basically try to do the same thing. But we do that for the cost, but then plus we have the labor on top of it. But we just look at it that, because Devon is here 40 hours a week and that's her job is to do all the merchandising and marketing. That just rolls into it. So I don't add her labor into that cost of the box or the products. We just basically mark up any of the products 50% and then she's working on them. So we don't earn as much as 50% on them, but that's okay. I just feel like it's something that gives me that connection with the readers, like we were talking about.
[00:15:15] And so when we're doing the boxes, we basically put a budget on it. We know what we're going to charge for it. So then we go through and figure out the products that we can fit in there and what we want and figure out how that we can make it work. So I usually do one really expensive product and we actually don't put a 50% markup on the boxes because I just want the boxes to be so great. So that's the one area where I don't really care if I'm not making anything on them. We usually make a little bit that way, Devon gets her bonus on that. But we go in and so she'll be like, okay, so we can get this bag for $12 and then I can make the tumbler for $8. So you're just basically adding everything up and making sure that it fits in that range.
[00:15:51] And we try to give a little bit of wiggle room, because it always ends up costing more than you think it's going to, because you have to take into consideration if you are ordering from one of the companies, the promotional companies, there's usually a set up charge for your logo. If you do it in multicolor, there's an extra charge. And then the more products you order, of course, they're less expensive. So you have to be really careful. That you aren't, you know, I'm going to order a thousand of these because I can get it for half the cost, but then you have 700 of them laying around for the next four years. So really figuring out where the best sweet spot is going to be.
[00:16:22] Matty: It's very much like the evolution of print, that before print-on-demand, when it was just print runs, you had to order the 500 or 1,000 or whatever, and now you really don't have to warehouse anything. And I suppose that the print-in-demand equivalent of that kind of stuff is something like Redbubble or Zazzle.
[00:16:40] Amy: Yeah. There's actually a girl in the community that does book-related promotional products. She's really great and she's great at finding different things. But like the Redbubble and that sort of thing, that's more expensive, so you can actually get it for much cheaper than that. Or you're ordering, like Discount Mugs is one of the places that you can order. They have all kinds of different promotional products. Especially if you're wanting smaller items, the plastic tumblers or mugs you can get there pretty easily, key chains. And they do have products that go up to really incredibly expensive where it's like $20 a piece, different things like that, if you're getting like, leather bound notebooks and that sort of thing.
[00:17:13] So just digging in and figuring out where you can get the least expensive things. How much effort you want to put into it, because you're designing your own stuff, then that takes away a cost, if you're having to have your book cover designer design the piece for you, that you're going to be using, that of course that's another cost. And the packaging, boxes are so expensive. So even if you are just doing signed paperbacks on your website, you need to take into consideration what are you shipping it in? Are you doing international? Because there's all these, international tax laws, so there's a lot of stuff that goes into it.
[00:18:11] Matty: I'm still intrigued by the idea that you're manufacturing those things yourself. I guess you're planning on doing this on an ongoing basis enough that a press for the thermal mugs, I don't know, I'm having trouble picturing this. Could you describe a little bit what all is entailed there?
[00:18:25] Amy: So we have presses for the different sizes of mugs and tumblers. So it's basically not huge, but we have a whole office in another building outside of my house where we keep all the paperbacks and all the supplies. So there's like a big table that we have the presses on. And we have three different presses. So they sit on there and you literally put the little tumbler in there and pull it shut and it heats. And we also have one for shirts and that one's much larger, because you have to have the flat area, and then you slide the shirt on there and pull the press down on it, it puts the emblem on there.
[00:18:56] The other thing that you have to have when you're doing that is a sublimation printer that actually prints a special ink that's very expensive, and the maintenance on it is crazy. You have to at least print a sheet a day or else that type of ink dries up. So we have a program that just automatically tells it to print at least a test paper a day to make sure that doesn't happen.
[00:19:14] So we have those, the presses, I think we'd purchased another form of pressing and we could not do it, we could not figure it out. So we ended up just getting rid of that because it was too time-consuming, and we were frustrated. And so it's been like trial and error, figuring out what we can do, what we like, what's easy and quick enough to do that we're not in there, you don't want to be spending an hour on a single shirt because that stuff is not going to benefit you in any way.
[00:19:36] Matty: Have you ever thought about expanding that as a service to offer other authors?
[00:19:40] Amy: No. I think we're a little overwhelmed sometimes, especially when the box has come along and it's so time-consuming because it can take away from writing, and even though I have staff doing that, I always get drawn in there because there's going to be questions. I'm trying to make sure that I am putting the effort in where it's the most beneficial for my business, and so I love having that as an augment, but I would never make that the focus.
[00:20:03] So as long as that's running fine, with me over here, just popping in there once in a while and not really that involved in it, then that's great. So if I were trying to do that for other authors would be that communication that would have to be going on and it would be way too much and it would take away from my business.
[00:20:18] Matty: And you had mentioned earlier about having someone who's the merchandising part was one of her primary responsibilities. Did you have the staff person and decide to go into merchandising, or did you go into merchandising and realize you needed a staff person for that?
[00:20:32] Amy: She was here already. So she has a marketing degree, so it was one of those things that she was like, you need to also be doing this. So she was able to see that there was something that I could do to further my business kind of thing.
[00:20:43] Matty: And if we look at the other end of the spectrum, you know, we've been talking about some of the premium products, are you going back to in-person author events yet?
[00:20:50] Amy: I'm actually scheduled to do one on September 11th in San Antonio. And at this point I think we're going, I was communicating with the organizer, and I think that they're going to go ahead and hold it. They're just implementing some more safety measures. So I think we're doing it.
[00:21:05] Matty: When you're at those kinds of events or other in-person events where you would want to be giving things away or selling less expensive items, what are your offerings on that end of the spectrum?
[00:21:16] Amy: I usually don't bring too much, but I will typically bring maybe 10 mugs, that I'll just have set up on a cute little stand just to make my table pretty. I like having just something that showcases what we have to offer on the website. So we'll have those there. I have had people contact us that ask if they can order a customized box and pick it up at the signing. So we've done that before, so what we'll do is package it and ship it and then they can pick it up there. I will do key chains, things that I can put on little tiny racks, but I try to make the focus my books at the signings.
[00:21:47] Matty: Are most of the things that you're offering, things that have a very explicit visual tie into your book or are there some things that are just things that would be of interest to the demographic of people that you're appealing to?
[00:22:01] Amy: So I think it's more of interest people that are my readers, because this is from my store and it just says, "Let's Dream Again" and it's just a quote from one of my books. And this actually came in one of the boxes. So the book cover's not on there, so somebody walking by isn't going to look at it and go, oh, there's that book that I recognize.
[00:22:18] So that's probably a deficit on my end that I'm not pushing it that way, but I would just feel like somebody would rather take this to their office and have just a cute mug rather than something that was like a romance cover on their mugs. You know what I mean? Some people like that sort of thing, but I try to make it where everybody could use it, even if you don't read me, like that's an adorable mug, so they might want it kind of thing. And then my logo's on the bottom of it. I would say no, I try to do book-related stuff or more inspirational stuff.
[00:22:45] Matty: I had just another story about my brief forays into merchandising. I have mugs with the cover of my first two books and, it was very exciting, one day I was at work, and I went into the kitchen area, and I saw one of my mugs in the sink, which is like a, whoa, look, I'm a real author!
[00:23:04] But the funnier one was, there's a diner near where I live and you can bring in mugs and all their mugs, they're all mismatched. They've all just been donated mugs and who knows what you're going to get when you order coffee, and they bring your mug. And years ago, I had taken a couple of my mugs over there with a bunch of other mugs that my husband and I were getting rid of, and so my husband ordered coffee and they actually served his coffee in my mug.
[00:23:29] Amy: Awesome, I love it. That is great free marketing, I think that's so great.
[00:23:35] Matty: Yeah, because I'm sure, enough people were waiting for their omelet to show up and decided they were going to Google whatever that thing was.
[00:23:42] Amy: A hundred percent, like I do that. There'll be a realtor on a menu or something, and I make note of that, and I know that they don't, but like that visual where they're connecting you to the more they see it type of thing.
[00:23:54] Matty: Have you ever expanded beyond going directly to your current and potential friends and fans to offer merchandise through another person, like a realtor is probably a bad example, but a florist or something like that might be a good tie into romance?
[00:24:09] Amy: I have not done that. Basically it's all just available on the website. We do through Etsy. We have definitely done collaborations where, say, a book blogger or Instagrammer has a box, there's a lot of different book subscription boxes out there, or they'll contact us and say, hey, can we have this piece in this box this month? Can we feature it? So we have collaborated with other people in the indy world, but I've never gone into my city and collaborated that way.
[00:24:36] Matty: And how have you found those opportunities where you're collaborating with other people in that way?
[00:24:41] Amy: Usually they just contact me. And there was a couple of opportunities. I think there are two or three boxes where you can submit a request to be a part of it, I'd have to look up which ones they are.
[00:24:52] Matty: If somebody was coming to you intrigued by this merchandising idea, but they were writing something very different than romance. Let's say they're writing crime fiction or fantasy or something like that, and they were struggling for ideas for what kind of merchandise to offer, what kind of images to use on them, would you have any advice that you could offer to those people?
[00:25:13] Amy: I would definitely say to start with their own logo. I would have something created that is going to be on every single piece that you create, whether it's a shirt or a mug, and then that way you can just get your name out there.
[00:25:27] I know romance readers really well, and they love book quotes, but I would assume that Lisa's fans would love something related to one of her books, that they're super invested in these characters that they followed and so the same thing, like picking out something like you did, like the fictional airport that you're able to pull that in and do that.
[00:25:44] Matty: I think I've seen that Lisa has a thermal mug with the name of the coffee shop that shows up in her Detective Josie Quinn books.
[00:25:52] Amy: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I think you're just proliferating your brand when you do that, the more things that you can have that on. And somebody may not be a reader of yours, you take your little mug to the library or to the store or to a meeting or wherever it may be, and maybe they've not heard of you before, they ask about it. And you're like, oh, this is, my books that I write, you can check it out on my website.
[00:26:12] Matty: Yeah. So, if this person you've spoken to, now they're super excited about merchandising, but they don't want to go whole hog into getting their own presses and things like that, what would be a good way for people to dip their toe in the water to see if it's something that they're interested in or their fans are interested in?
[00:26:29] Amy: I would definitely start with some of the promotional companies like Discount Mugs and I think One Print, I think it's called, that has some really good products. Just searching and finding out something, I would start small. I think our instinct, when we start doing something like this, is we think we need so many different products to keep sales coming in, because if somebody orders a mug, they're probably only going to order one type of thing, and when you're having it printed somewhere else, you can't really do a bunch of different designs because you do have to get a print run. So figuring out where do you want to start out, how much investment do you want to put into it, and what do you want to get out of it? So just making sure you're not getting in over your head and ordering too many products that are going to be sitting around for a really long time.
[00:27:06] And then figuring out where you're going to be selling them at, and if you're giving any away, if you're using it for giveaways. Because one of the great things is if that you can sell some and then you can also use them for promotional when you're, popping into different Facebook groups or whatever, celebrating somebody else's release. I'm not sure about the other genres. I'm guessing that crime fiction that you guys all still do the same thing. I'm not sure. But you know, the different ways that you collaborate with in different places, you could be showing off those products and using them just to pique some of these interests that they know your name now, they have that piece of product. Finding something that really represents you as an author and your stories and figuring out how to make that work with a piece of merchandise.
[00:27:43] Matty: I like the idea of having those images that aren't necessarily a book cover or a logo. So I have products up on Redbubble, which is fine. I actually, as a customer of Redbubble, find it hard to find the products. You would think they would display it better, so it was clear. For example, my first book has a brass hand on it, and so the logo of my publishing company is a stylized version of that hand. And so I have that, you can get it on like a book bag and a t-shirt and stuff like that. But for some reason, Redbubble, if I'm going in as a shopper, it's hard to see anything but one product at a time, which I think is a downside. So if any listeners have tips about other places that you think are better from a shopper point of view, that would be great.
[00:28:29] But one of the things I've done with some of my merchandise is when charitable organizations sometimes ask for contributions for silent auctions, and so a couple of times I've made baskets that have a couple of my books and then a related merchandise item, usually a mug. And that can be a good way for people, if they have some way they can just do a one-off, they're doing some good for the world and it could give them an idea of the interest in that kind of product among the people they want to reach.
[00:28:56] Amy: Yes. And the good thing about places like Redbubble, you can get a one-off and not have to do a whole print run. Especially if you're just wanting a couple pieces, like if you want 10, I would say, go with something like that, rather than investing a bunch of money. Even a hundred mugs is a huge box, plus it's a fairly significant cost.
[00:29:13] Matty: Yeah. And I've done that in Redbubble. For example, I was on a video event where I was guessing people were going to wear logoed shirts, so I just ordered one for myself, one Indy Author logoed shirt, because I wanted to be able to wear that. But I don't know that anyone else has ever ordered an Indy Author t-shirt, but I think they might because it just says Indy Author on it.
[00:29:33] Amy: And have the masterminds or different writer events where everybody's getting together and you just, I don't know, you can strike up conversations that way, which I really like, and you become memorable when you're in a group of 500 authors or 1,000 or however many might be there and just be able to, I like that, it's kind of fun.
[00:29:50] Matty: And I think we could spin up that idea that you'd mentioned earlier about, for example, having phrases from your book on a piece of merchandise, like if you had a shirt that had a memorable phrase from your book, but no other identifying information, it's kind of a nice conversation starter because people can walk up to you and say, what do you mean by, "I love you to the highest mountain" or whatever that phrase might be? Even if you've never sold any of them, you could still get some business benefit by using that as a conversation starter.
[00:30:15] Amy: And the more people you talk to, the more people that you know, and it's amazing, you know, I've been in the grocery store line before and just somehow struck up a conversation or say I'm not really good at striking up conversations. If somebody talks to me, I'm always glad to talk back to them and found out they're readers. Anyway, this small conversation turns into they've asked for my business card kind of thing. So definitely that opens the door for people to ask. We have shirts on the website that say, "Book Lover" and "Bookworm" and different versions of that. And so I think that's really fun. The readers really love to claim that. And that has nothing to do with any of my books or anything like that, but that is something that we offer.
[00:30:49] Matty: Another possible ability I can imagine, I'm thinking now about an interview I did with Robert Blake Whitehill. Again, I'll put the link in the show notes. But was about how he engaged interns. Initially, I was going to ask him about how he engaged interns in his author business to save time. Wasn't really a time-saving thing, more of a nice thing he was doing for the people who wanted to intern with an author. But one of the things he did, because some of his interns came from art school, is that they did fanfiction based on his books. And I can imagine it could be fun if you can work out the appropriate rights situation with that person, you could engage your fans and actually creating the design that gets put on the shirt.
[00:31:29] Amy: Right. Yeah, that would be super fun. And I've had readers email me pictures they've drawn or different digital pictures that they wanted on a shirt that they create from my books and that's super cool. And so Devon's actually been able to do a couple of things. Some of it was too complicated, we were not able to do it for them, I think they got it printed somewhere else.
[00:31:46] That's a piece that they would want to collect, and then I think that it was somebody in Amy's Angels and they're all like tight knit anyway, they know each other, they're all interacting all the time. Something that one of them created is something more appealing to the rest. So it creates that tight knit feeling.
[00:32:01] Matty: Yeah, that's great. These were so many great ideas, Amy, I appreciate you sharing all your expertise in this area. Please let the listeners know where they can find out more about you and all your books and merchandise online.
[00:32:13] Amy: Awesome. You can just head over to my website, it's ALJacksonAuthor.com.
[00:32:17] Matty: Great. Thank you.
Amy: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:03:15] And so people that just have gotten into that group and found it fun or interesting, and like some of the snippets that I put in there, and they became avid readers and fans. So, I like to call them friends. So it has been really great. I have a really great group. we only talk books, and we don't do anything negative in there. And so I've just cultivated an area where people can go to feel good rather than, they're not going to see people complaining about things. There's lots of places you can do that, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but in that group, we don't do that. And so it's just like a really fun, encouraging place to be.
[00:03:47] Matty: Do you have to actively moderate to ensure that kind of environment?
[00:03:53] Amy: Very rarely. And when you join, there's actually rules of the group, so it clearly states what you can and cannot. And so I have a couple of people that watch it, a couple on my ARC team. They'll let me know if there's a post in there that goes against the rules, and we'll just go in and delete it and block the person. We don't even really get into it. We just delete, block, and that way we don't have to make a thing about it. Those kinds of posts are gone as quickly as they show up.
[00:04:15] Matty: That's great advice. I have a reader group and it hasn't been around that long. And in the scheme of what people post on social media, this barely registered, but I got the first post that I was like, oh, I wish somebody hadn't put that and I was unsure about what to do about it. It was so innocuous that I wouldn't have done anything anyway, but I think that advice about just delete and block without making a thing about it is really good advice.
[00:04:37] Amy: Yeah. And there's a couple of times where you know, because we do talk books and that's probably the slippery slope we have in there, because I asked them not to talk negatively about any specific authors. And there have been posts where somebody's oh, I really wanted to love this book, but I didn't because she's one of my favorite authors. And then in the comments, it can get a little bit like, oh yeah, I hated this book. And I'm like, oh, we don't put some author's name on here and then say we hated the book, that kind of thing. So that's hard because a lot of times they can be really active members of the group. And so in that case, I will go on and I'll usually just delete the post and say, "Hey guys, I know we're really passionate about books, but remember a lot of these authors are my friends and they can see these posts so just be careful of what you're saying in here."
[00:05:15] Matty: That's great advice. One thing that popped into my head, when you described your readers group as an intimate place called "Amy's Angels." Do you ever have anybody showing up thinking it's going to be something different than it is?
[00:05:28] Amy: I don't think so, because they have to agree to all the rules when they go in there. We have to approve them to be a member, so we'll look and if it looks like they are part of the reader world, that it just gives you that feeling that maybe that person is not going to be a benefit to the group, we would just not even let them in there, just because we don't want, we have had a couple of like porn things pop up and stuff like that.
[00:05:46] So we try to be really careful about who is coming into the group. It's literally for people that know my books and love books. They don't even have to be a reader of mine; they just have to be book fans.
[00:05:58] Matty: So that's great background for the context. And Lisa had recommended you particularly because she felt you had done a great job on the merchandising front. So what made you start thinking about having merchandise be something you wanted to use to connect with these friends who are reading your books?
[00:06:14] Amy: Well, I don't even know how we got so deeply involved, because it grew over time. So when I first started, I didn't even have paperbacks on hand or anything like that other than for family that wanted copies and that sort of thing. So I didn't have a website that I was selling them. And then, my daughter had interned for me when she was going to the University of Arizona, and she was getting a Marketing degree.
[00:06:35] So when she had been doing that, she was like, "okay, let's get a website up for you, and we can sell them", because people were wanting signed copies. And so she was able to facilitate that and create a thing where we could do the shipping and all of that through the website and allow people to order. So I think it just grew as time went on because we would go to signings and people would want swag from the table, and so you'd have these cute little things that were key chains and bookmarks and really inexpensive things to produce that you would just give away.
[00:07:01] And it just grew from there. It was like, oh, I'd love a t-shirt. You know, I had a group of readers show up that had shirts made that said "Amy's Angels" on them and they wore them around the whole time. So it just was like, oh, and then other people were like, I want one of those shirts! So then we ended up getting some shirts on the website. So it really just progressively grew from there. And then as box subscriptions became popular, not even necessarily in the book world, which they grew into that as well, but like just in general, people love the boxes.
[00:07:25] So when we have a new release, we have a box that comes out with that they're able to order it. And it has everything themed for the book.
[00:07:32] Matty: Can you describe what one of those boxes is or what it includes?
[00:07:36] Amy: So I actually have one that's going out this week and I don't think this will air before then, so it's a surprise box, I don't think any readers will see it, but this time we have, we try to put different stuff in at each time and make it usable and fun, but also theme it with the books, so it's romantic and bookish at the same time. So I try not to put a lot of paper products because that gets expensive, just printing and that's one of the things I know we'll get into that in the cost of merchandising, but I mostly focused on trying to have some larger products in there, so they get a signed paperback. And then with this one, there is a book bag, but it's like an actual corduroy bag with a heavy strap that can be adjusted. It's actually like a bag that you could take to the library and fit heavy books in. And so that it matches, it's black to go with the cover. And then we have an insulated tumbler that has the logo of the club where the book takes place at. So it just looks like you bought it at the club.
[00:08:25] There's a little spot where it says AL Jackson, but literally for the readers to be like, oh, I was at Absolution. So they get that and then there's a little book, really cute key chain and like a metal keychain, it says, "Book Lover" and it has like some charms on it. So it's something that I usually try to put something very specific just for book lovers in there as well.
[00:08:41] And then I always do a theme, like a quote from the book. So they also get a notebook with the quotes, "I love you to the highest mountain". And that's like the quote for the book what's signed inside the book. So that's on top of the notebook, and then they also have a little picture frame that says that so they can put it on their desk. And then there's a pen and a bookmark and little goodies like that.
[00:08:58] Matty: Oh, my goodness, that is extremely elaborate! I don't think I've ever seen such an elaborate offering.
[00:09:05] Amy: I am doing it very elaborate and it's probably the one thing that we really don't make much money on because I just want, literally just a collector's item for my fans, who are really excited for a new book to come out.
[00:09:14] Matty: So can I ask how many of those you prepare
[00:09:18] Amy: We do a hundred as our max because it takes weeks to prepare them.
[00:09:23] Matty: I think an overarching question about merchandising is, are you doing it as a thank you to existing fans and friends, or you're doing it to attract new people?
[00:09:32] And I've got to believe that the boxes are something that's more a thank you to existing fans and friends, because they're the ones who are going to be the most excited about those offerings is that the case?
[00:09:43] Amy: Yes, it's definitely the case. We have some small pieces like book lover mugs and different stuff like that, that we have on Etsy.
[00:09:50] But really, the people that go to my website are people that already have read me and are typically looking for a specific piece. And we do post it on social media, so I do see, you know, people will see, but they usually already know who I am. They may not be a reader of mine, but they might see something that's cute, but they already know who I am so I'm not really reaching new readers by posting merchandise. I'm sure there's been a handful that have come along that way, but I doubt that it's something that is drawing new readers to me.
[00:10:15] Matty: And the 100 boxes that you get for a new launch, are any of those reserved as giveaways, or are they all sold to fans?
[00:10:23] Amy: They're sold. They sell out so fast. So we do the cover reveal, we put up the box order and then people just, it's funny, literally, we'll put it live on the website and people start buying it. They're waiting for it to go up there, so it's kind of fun.
[00:10:35] Matty: That is really fun. This is one of these things where it's always dangerous to apply one's own preferences when deciding how to reach out to readers. And I'm just at an era in my life where I don't want more stuff, you know? And so whenever I try to think of things that I want to offer people, I'm picking the things that I myself would be interested in. So when you were talking about your thermal mug, one of the things I have, for example, I have an Indy Author mug and I can get drinks of water very carefully so that people can see my logo.
[00:11:06] But one of the things that I had gotten really just for myself and a couple of close friends, as my third novel had an aviation theme and there was a fictional airport in it called Avondale Airport. And so I made a logo, like you were saying, it looks like the club in the book. And I made one, it says Avondale Airport Falcon Flight Services, which is a reference to the book. And it's really just an in-group with the pilots. My husband is a pilot, the other pilots who helped me out with the book, it was almost a nod to them because they're the only ones who are going to realize that there's not really an Avondale Airport.
[00:11:43] I
[00:11:43] Amy: think that's fantastic, and I think readers love that, they love having something. So when they get this box and they open it, they're not going to know what Absolution is until they read the book and it makes it a part of them. So I think that's that same idea, and I think that's a great thing.
[00:11:57] Matty: I think that also that idea of the fictional world leaking into the real world is super fun. You know, they're going to be somewhere or someone's going to ask them, oh, have you been to the Absolution Club? They could say, why, yes, I have!
[00:12:10] Amy: Yes. Yes, I am, yes. Trina is waiting for them there. So, you know, because romance is fantasy, so I think it just it lends itself to that, that you're a part of that world and readers really love that.
[00:12:20] And so that's why I try to mix in things that'll be fun, and about the book, but also something useful, so that's why we have the book bag in there because now they purchased this box and it's not inexpensive, but they have like actual useful things, between the bag and the tumbler, if you bought that at the store, you would already have paid for the box, plus they get the book and so we try to make it really cool and I never want somebody to purchase the box and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I wasted that money on this. So I try to wow them every single time that they open a box.
[00:12:46] Matty: Do you ever feel like you're having trouble topping a previous one?
[00:12:51] Amy: Absolutely! Every time, we're always searching for new products and because it can be hard because when you do logos, one of the issues is a lot of the companies that will put a logo on something and it's really intended to be swag, something that you're giving away. So while it can be expensive, it also may not be as valuable as, you know what I mean? If you get something that's like plastic that costs you $5 to put a logo on it, and it's something that they're going to throw away because they don't see a value in it. So that's something that you have to be really careful about. So we're constantly searching for things that are quality.
[00:13:22] And we started making a lot of our products, which, is a big production, so that is something that I feel like we got in over our heads a little bit on, just to be like, so we actually make the tumblers? We do the pressing for them, we press our mugs, press our zipper bags, we do a lot of that. So we bought like the equipment to be able to do that. And it's a lot of work. It's much better, it's nicer stuff. So you have to balance, if you have a full-time staff and they're doing that, then that's okay, but if you're trying to write and you want to be doing that stuff, I don't think it's worth it to do that. I don't think that balances out to be in your favor.
[00:13:56] Matty: Well, when you were talking about describing how nice the bag was, I thought there are plenty of places where you can go and you get the sleazy bag and you're right, a lot of those probably end up in the trash. And so when you're deciding that you want to offer a premium product like that, how do you go about weighing the cost of producing it versus the quantitative and qualitative benefits you're going to get out of it?
[00:14:23] Amy: So basically, what we do is we set a budget for the box, and we basically do that for all of our products. If you go to my website, you'll see there's all kinds of things that you can purchase on there. Because anytime you're in merchandising, if you look at the amounts that you're supposed to charge, really, it's like the 50% mark-up If you're running like a little boutique and you have scarves and notebooks and purses, basically you're doing 50% on those products.
[00:14:47] So we basically try to do the same thing. But we do that for the cost, but then plus we have the labor on top of it. But we just look at it that, because Devon is here 40 hours a week and that's her job is to do all the merchandising and marketing. That just rolls into it. So I don't add her labor into that cost of the box or the products. We just basically mark up any of the products 50% and then she's working on them. So we don't earn as much as 50% on them, but that's okay. I just feel like it's something that gives me that connection with the readers, like we were talking about.
[00:15:15] And so when we're doing the boxes, we basically put a budget on it. We know what we're going to charge for it. So then we go through and figure out the products that we can fit in there and what we want and figure out how that we can make it work. So I usually do one really expensive product and we actually don't put a 50% markup on the boxes because I just want the boxes to be so great. So that's the one area where I don't really care if I'm not making anything on them. We usually make a little bit that way, Devon gets her bonus on that. But we go in and so she'll be like, okay, so we can get this bag for $12 and then I can make the tumbler for $8. So you're just basically adding everything up and making sure that it fits in that range.
[00:15:51] And we try to give a little bit of wiggle room, because it always ends up costing more than you think it's going to, because you have to take into consideration if you are ordering from one of the companies, the promotional companies, there's usually a set up charge for your logo. If you do it in multicolor, there's an extra charge. And then the more products you order, of course, they're less expensive. So you have to be really careful. That you aren't, you know, I'm going to order a thousand of these because I can get it for half the cost, but then you have 700 of them laying around for the next four years. So really figuring out where the best sweet spot is going to be.
[00:16:22] Matty: It's very much like the evolution of print, that before print-on-demand, when it was just print runs, you had to order the 500 or 1,000 or whatever, and now you really don't have to warehouse anything. And I suppose that the print-in-demand equivalent of that kind of stuff is something like Redbubble or Zazzle.
[00:16:40] Amy: Yeah. There's actually a girl in the community that does book-related promotional products. She's really great and she's great at finding different things. But like the Redbubble and that sort of thing, that's more expensive, so you can actually get it for much cheaper than that. Or you're ordering, like Discount Mugs is one of the places that you can order. They have all kinds of different promotional products. Especially if you're wanting smaller items, the plastic tumblers or mugs you can get there pretty easily, key chains. And they do have products that go up to really incredibly expensive where it's like $20 a piece, different things like that, if you're getting like, leather bound notebooks and that sort of thing.
[00:17:13] So just digging in and figuring out where you can get the least expensive things. How much effort you want to put into it, because you're designing your own stuff, then that takes away a cost, if you're having to have your book cover designer design the piece for you, that you're going to be using, that of course that's another cost. And the packaging, boxes are so expensive. So even if you are just doing signed paperbacks on your website, you need to take into consideration what are you shipping it in? Are you doing international? Because there's all these, international tax laws, so there's a lot of stuff that goes into it.
[00:18:11] Matty: I'm still intrigued by the idea that you're manufacturing those things yourself. I guess you're planning on doing this on an ongoing basis enough that a press for the thermal mugs, I don't know, I'm having trouble picturing this. Could you describe a little bit what all is entailed there?
[00:18:25] Amy: So we have presses for the different sizes of mugs and tumblers. So it's basically not huge, but we have a whole office in another building outside of my house where we keep all the paperbacks and all the supplies. So there's like a big table that we have the presses on. And we have three different presses. So they sit on there and you literally put the little tumbler in there and pull it shut and it heats. And we also have one for shirts and that one's much larger, because you have to have the flat area, and then you slide the shirt on there and pull the press down on it, it puts the emblem on there.
[00:18:56] The other thing that you have to have when you're doing that is a sublimation printer that actually prints a special ink that's very expensive, and the maintenance on it is crazy. You have to at least print a sheet a day or else that type of ink dries up. So we have a program that just automatically tells it to print at least a test paper a day to make sure that doesn't happen.
[00:19:14] So we have those, the presses, I think we'd purchased another form of pressing and we could not do it, we could not figure it out. So we ended up just getting rid of that because it was too time-consuming, and we were frustrated. And so it's been like trial and error, figuring out what we can do, what we like, what's easy and quick enough to do that we're not in there, you don't want to be spending an hour on a single shirt because that stuff is not going to benefit you in any way.
[00:19:36] Matty: Have you ever thought about expanding that as a service to offer other authors?
[00:19:40] Amy: No. I think we're a little overwhelmed sometimes, especially when the box has come along and it's so time-consuming because it can take away from writing, and even though I have staff doing that, I always get drawn in there because there's going to be questions. I'm trying to make sure that I am putting the effort in where it's the most beneficial for my business, and so I love having that as an augment, but I would never make that the focus.
[00:20:03] So as long as that's running fine, with me over here, just popping in there once in a while and not really that involved in it, then that's great. So if I were trying to do that for other authors would be that communication that would have to be going on and it would be way too much and it would take away from my business.
[00:20:18] Matty: And you had mentioned earlier about having someone who's the merchandising part was one of her primary responsibilities. Did you have the staff person and decide to go into merchandising, or did you go into merchandising and realize you needed a staff person for that?
[00:20:32] Amy: She was here already. So she has a marketing degree, so it was one of those things that she was like, you need to also be doing this. So she was able to see that there was something that I could do to further my business kind of thing.
[00:20:43] Matty: And if we look at the other end of the spectrum, you know, we've been talking about some of the premium products, are you going back to in-person author events yet?
[00:20:50] Amy: I'm actually scheduled to do one on September 11th in San Antonio. And at this point I think we're going, I was communicating with the organizer, and I think that they're going to go ahead and hold it. They're just implementing some more safety measures. So I think we're doing it.
[00:21:05] Matty: When you're at those kinds of events or other in-person events where you would want to be giving things away or selling less expensive items, what are your offerings on that end of the spectrum?
[00:21:16] Amy: I usually don't bring too much, but I will typically bring maybe 10 mugs, that I'll just have set up on a cute little stand just to make my table pretty. I like having just something that showcases what we have to offer on the website. So we'll have those there. I have had people contact us that ask if they can order a customized box and pick it up at the signing. So we've done that before, so what we'll do is package it and ship it and then they can pick it up there. I will do key chains, things that I can put on little tiny racks, but I try to make the focus my books at the signings.
[00:21:47] Matty: Are most of the things that you're offering, things that have a very explicit visual tie into your book or are there some things that are just things that would be of interest to the demographic of people that you're appealing to?
[00:22:01] Amy: So I think it's more of interest people that are my readers, because this is from my store and it just says, "Let's Dream Again" and it's just a quote from one of my books. And this actually came in one of the boxes. So the book cover's not on there, so somebody walking by isn't going to look at it and go, oh, there's that book that I recognize.
[00:22:18] So that's probably a deficit on my end that I'm not pushing it that way, but I would just feel like somebody would rather take this to their office and have just a cute mug rather than something that was like a romance cover on their mugs. You know what I mean? Some people like that sort of thing, but I try to make it where everybody could use it, even if you don't read me, like that's an adorable mug, so they might want it kind of thing. And then my logo's on the bottom of it. I would say no, I try to do book-related stuff or more inspirational stuff.
[00:22:45] Matty: I had just another story about my brief forays into merchandising. I have mugs with the cover of my first two books and, it was very exciting, one day I was at work, and I went into the kitchen area, and I saw one of my mugs in the sink, which is like a, whoa, look, I'm a real author!
[00:23:04] But the funnier one was, there's a diner near where I live and you can bring in mugs and all their mugs, they're all mismatched. They've all just been donated mugs and who knows what you're going to get when you order coffee, and they bring your mug. And years ago, I had taken a couple of my mugs over there with a bunch of other mugs that my husband and I were getting rid of, and so my husband ordered coffee and they actually served his coffee in my mug.
[00:23:29] Amy: Awesome, I love it. That is great free marketing, I think that's so great.
[00:23:35] Matty: Yeah, because I'm sure, enough people were waiting for their omelet to show up and decided they were going to Google whatever that thing was.
[00:23:42] Amy: A hundred percent, like I do that. There'll be a realtor on a menu or something, and I make note of that, and I know that they don't, but like that visual where they're connecting you to the more they see it type of thing.
[00:23:54] Matty: Have you ever expanded beyond going directly to your current and potential friends and fans to offer merchandise through another person, like a realtor is probably a bad example, but a florist or something like that might be a good tie into romance?
[00:24:09] Amy: I have not done that. Basically it's all just available on the website. We do through Etsy. We have definitely done collaborations where, say, a book blogger or Instagrammer has a box, there's a lot of different book subscription boxes out there, or they'll contact us and say, hey, can we have this piece in this box this month? Can we feature it? So we have collaborated with other people in the indy world, but I've never gone into my city and collaborated that way.
[00:24:36] Matty: And how have you found those opportunities where you're collaborating with other people in that way?
[00:24:41] Amy: Usually they just contact me. And there was a couple of opportunities. I think there are two or three boxes where you can submit a request to be a part of it, I'd have to look up which ones they are.
[00:24:52] Matty: If somebody was coming to you intrigued by this merchandising idea, but they were writing something very different than romance. Let's say they're writing crime fiction or fantasy or something like that, and they were struggling for ideas for what kind of merchandise to offer, what kind of images to use on them, would you have any advice that you could offer to those people?
[00:25:13] Amy: I would definitely say to start with their own logo. I would have something created that is going to be on every single piece that you create, whether it's a shirt or a mug, and then that way you can just get your name out there.
[00:25:27] I know romance readers really well, and they love book quotes, but I would assume that Lisa's fans would love something related to one of her books, that they're super invested in these characters that they followed and so the same thing, like picking out something like you did, like the fictional airport that you're able to pull that in and do that.
[00:25:44] Matty: I think I've seen that Lisa has a thermal mug with the name of the coffee shop that shows up in her Detective Josie Quinn books.
[00:25:52] Amy: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I think you're just proliferating your brand when you do that, the more things that you can have that on. And somebody may not be a reader of yours, you take your little mug to the library or to the store or to a meeting or wherever it may be, and maybe they've not heard of you before, they ask about it. And you're like, oh, this is, my books that I write, you can check it out on my website.
[00:26:12] Matty: Yeah. So, if this person you've spoken to, now they're super excited about merchandising, but they don't want to go whole hog into getting their own presses and things like that, what would be a good way for people to dip their toe in the water to see if it's something that they're interested in or their fans are interested in?
[00:26:29] Amy: I would definitely start with some of the promotional companies like Discount Mugs and I think One Print, I think it's called, that has some really good products. Just searching and finding out something, I would start small. I think our instinct, when we start doing something like this, is we think we need so many different products to keep sales coming in, because if somebody orders a mug, they're probably only going to order one type of thing, and when you're having it printed somewhere else, you can't really do a bunch of different designs because you do have to get a print run. So figuring out where do you want to start out, how much investment do you want to put into it, and what do you want to get out of it? So just making sure you're not getting in over your head and ordering too many products that are going to be sitting around for a really long time.
[00:27:06] And then figuring out where you're going to be selling them at, and if you're giving any away, if you're using it for giveaways. Because one of the great things is if that you can sell some and then you can also use them for promotional when you're, popping into different Facebook groups or whatever, celebrating somebody else's release. I'm not sure about the other genres. I'm guessing that crime fiction that you guys all still do the same thing. I'm not sure. But you know, the different ways that you collaborate with in different places, you could be showing off those products and using them just to pique some of these interests that they know your name now, they have that piece of product. Finding something that really represents you as an author and your stories and figuring out how to make that work with a piece of merchandise.
[00:27:43] Matty: I like the idea of having those images that aren't necessarily a book cover or a logo. So I have products up on Redbubble, which is fine. I actually, as a customer of Redbubble, find it hard to find the products. You would think they would display it better, so it was clear. For example, my first book has a brass hand on it, and so the logo of my publishing company is a stylized version of that hand. And so I have that, you can get it on like a book bag and a t-shirt and stuff like that. But for some reason, Redbubble, if I'm going in as a shopper, it's hard to see anything but one product at a time, which I think is a downside. So if any listeners have tips about other places that you think are better from a shopper point of view, that would be great.
[00:28:29] But one of the things I've done with some of my merchandise is when charitable organizations sometimes ask for contributions for silent auctions, and so a couple of times I've made baskets that have a couple of my books and then a related merchandise item, usually a mug. And that can be a good way for people, if they have some way they can just do a one-off, they're doing some good for the world and it could give them an idea of the interest in that kind of product among the people they want to reach.
[00:28:56] Amy: Yes. And the good thing about places like Redbubble, you can get a one-off and not have to do a whole print run. Especially if you're just wanting a couple pieces, like if you want 10, I would say, go with something like that, rather than investing a bunch of money. Even a hundred mugs is a huge box, plus it's a fairly significant cost.
[00:29:13] Matty: Yeah. And I've done that in Redbubble. For example, I was on a video event where I was guessing people were going to wear logoed shirts, so I just ordered one for myself, one Indy Author logoed shirt, because I wanted to be able to wear that. But I don't know that anyone else has ever ordered an Indy Author t-shirt, but I think they might because it just says Indy Author on it.
[00:29:33] Amy: And have the masterminds or different writer events where everybody's getting together and you just, I don't know, you can strike up conversations that way, which I really like, and you become memorable when you're in a group of 500 authors or 1,000 or however many might be there and just be able to, I like that, it's kind of fun.
[00:29:50] Matty: And I think we could spin up that idea that you'd mentioned earlier about, for example, having phrases from your book on a piece of merchandise, like if you had a shirt that had a memorable phrase from your book, but no other identifying information, it's kind of a nice conversation starter because people can walk up to you and say, what do you mean by, "I love you to the highest mountain" or whatever that phrase might be? Even if you've never sold any of them, you could still get some business benefit by using that as a conversation starter.
[00:30:15] Amy: And the more people you talk to, the more people that you know, and it's amazing, you know, I've been in the grocery store line before and just somehow struck up a conversation or say I'm not really good at striking up conversations. If somebody talks to me, I'm always glad to talk back to them and found out they're readers. Anyway, this small conversation turns into they've asked for my business card kind of thing. So definitely that opens the door for people to ask. We have shirts on the website that say, "Book Lover" and "Bookworm" and different versions of that. And so I think that's really fun. The readers really love to claim that. And that has nothing to do with any of my books or anything like that, but that is something that we offer.
[00:30:49] Matty: Another possible ability I can imagine, I'm thinking now about an interview I did with Robert Blake Whitehill. Again, I'll put the link in the show notes. But was about how he engaged interns. Initially, I was going to ask him about how he engaged interns in his author business to save time. Wasn't really a time-saving thing, more of a nice thing he was doing for the people who wanted to intern with an author. But one of the things he did, because some of his interns came from art school, is that they did fanfiction based on his books. And I can imagine it could be fun if you can work out the appropriate rights situation with that person, you could engage your fans and actually creating the design that gets put on the shirt.
[00:31:29] Amy: Right. Yeah, that would be super fun. And I've had readers email me pictures they've drawn or different digital pictures that they wanted on a shirt that they create from my books and that's super cool. And so Devon's actually been able to do a couple of things. Some of it was too complicated, we were not able to do it for them, I think they got it printed somewhere else.
[00:31:46] That's a piece that they would want to collect, and then I think that it was somebody in Amy's Angels and they're all like tight knit anyway, they know each other, they're all interacting all the time. Something that one of them created is something more appealing to the rest. So it creates that tight knit feeling.
[00:32:01] Matty: Yeah, that's great. These were so many great ideas, Amy, I appreciate you sharing all your expertise in this area. Please let the listeners know where they can find out more about you and all your books and merchandise online.
[00:32:13] Amy: Awesome. You can just head over to my website, it's ALJacksonAuthor.com.
[00:32:17] Matty: Great. Thank you.
Amy: Thank you so much for having me.
Links
From the personal update:
From the interview with AL Jackson:
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