Episode 242 - Uncovering Your Author Purpose with Greta Boris and Megan Haskell
June 11, 2024
"Ultimately it comes down to understanding yourself, your goals, your motivations, and your processes, so that you can find that satisfaction and reach the right kinds of readers in the right places and the right way over time, whatever that length of time is for you. It's so important to have both of those aspects when you're considering what you're doing. And why pick this job, this horrible, painful, wonderful job, if you don't have to?" —Megan Haskell (along with Greta Boris of The Author Wheel)
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Greta Boris and Megan Haskell discuss UNCOVERING YOUR AUTHOR PURPOSE, including understanding your priorities and circumstances; having a unifying theme as a "hub"; the importance of alignment between your creative and business focuses; mining your fiction preferences for clarity about your author purpose; writing with a goal of marketability; the danger of shiny object syndrome; creating a reader-focused tagline; and having different taglines for the author and the books.
If one of those topics piques your interest, you can easily jump to that section on YouTube by clicking on the flagged timestamps in the description.
If one of those topics piques your interest, you can easily jump to that section on YouTube by clicking on the flagged timestamps in the description.
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Greta Boris is a USA Today Bestselling mystery and thriller author. Megan Haskell is an award-winning fantasy adventure author. Together, they founded The Author Wheel, publishers of books, courses, and a podcast to help writers overcome roadblocks and keep their stories rolling. With over twenty-five years of writing and publishing experience between them, they’ve made the mistakes, so you don’t have to.
Links
Greta and Megan's Links:
www.AuthorWheel.com
https://www.facebook.com/AuthorWheel
https://www.facebook.com/groups/856705052538168
Clarify | Simplify | Implement Newsletter: https://meganhaskellauthor.substack.com/
Matty's Links:
Affiliate links
Events
www.AuthorWheel.com
https://www.facebook.com/AuthorWheel
https://www.facebook.com/groups/856705052538168
Clarify | Simplify | Implement Newsletter: https://meganhaskellauthor.substack.com/
Matty's Links:
Affiliate links
Events
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Greta and Megan! Do you find yourself falling victim to shiny object syndrome and, if yes, how do you combat it?
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AI-generated Summary
This episode of "The Indy Author Podcast" features a discussion with Greta Boris and Megan Haskell, both accomplished authors and founders of the Author Wheel, a platform providing resources for writers. They explore the concept of author purpose, offering insights into personal experiences, industry observations, and strategies for authors to identify and align with their core motivations and goals in writing.
Megan Haskell shares her journey from using writing as a creative outlet to grappling with the commercial aspects of publishing. Her experience highlights the importance of understanding why one writes, to maintain joy and satisfaction in the process. Greta Boris adds to this by discussing how misconceptions about publishing paths can lead authors astray. They emphasize the significance of identifying one's unique authorial goals and preferences, rather than following generic or misleading industry norms.
The conversation delves into various author archetypes, such as the "bucket lister" and "calling card writer," illustrating the diversity in authors' motivations and the necessity of a tailored approach to publishing. This ties into the broader theme of author purpose, where understanding one's own goals and values is crucial for long-term satisfaction and success in the literary field.
Matty, the host, and the guests discuss the practical implications of author purpose, including the impact on publishing decisions and marketing strategies. They advocate for a balanced approach, considering both personal fulfillment and market demands. The dialogue also touches on the importance of authenticity in writing, with examples illustrating how a genuine connection to one’s work can enhance its appeal and longevity.
The discussion emphasizes the dynamic nature of an author's career, noting that goals and motivations can evolve over time. Reflecting on personal themes and reader expectations is highlighted as a way to maintain relevance and resonance in one’s writing.
In summary, the episode is a nuanced conversation about the concept of author purpose, offering valuable perspectives for writers at different stages of their careers. It underscores the importance of self-awareness, authenticity, and strategic planning in navigating the complexities of the publishing industry. The discussion serves as a reminder that while financial success is a common goal, the foundational element of a fulfilling authorial career is a deep understanding of and alignment with one’s personal motivations and objectives in writing.
Megan Haskell shares her journey from using writing as a creative outlet to grappling with the commercial aspects of publishing. Her experience highlights the importance of understanding why one writes, to maintain joy and satisfaction in the process. Greta Boris adds to this by discussing how misconceptions about publishing paths can lead authors astray. They emphasize the significance of identifying one's unique authorial goals and preferences, rather than following generic or misleading industry norms.
The conversation delves into various author archetypes, such as the "bucket lister" and "calling card writer," illustrating the diversity in authors' motivations and the necessity of a tailored approach to publishing. This ties into the broader theme of author purpose, where understanding one's own goals and values is crucial for long-term satisfaction and success in the literary field.
Matty, the host, and the guests discuss the practical implications of author purpose, including the impact on publishing decisions and marketing strategies. They advocate for a balanced approach, considering both personal fulfillment and market demands. The dialogue also touches on the importance of authenticity in writing, with examples illustrating how a genuine connection to one’s work can enhance its appeal and longevity.
The discussion emphasizes the dynamic nature of an author's career, noting that goals and motivations can evolve over time. Reflecting on personal themes and reader expectations is highlighted as a way to maintain relevance and resonance in one’s writing.
In summary, the episode is a nuanced conversation about the concept of author purpose, offering valuable perspectives for writers at different stages of their careers. It underscores the importance of self-awareness, authenticity, and strategic planning in navigating the complexities of the publishing industry. The discussion serves as a reminder that while financial success is a common goal, the foundational element of a fulfilling authorial career is a deep understanding of and alignment with one’s personal motivations and objectives in writing.
Transcript
Matty: Hello and welcome to The Indy Author Podcast. Today my guests are Greta Boris and Megan Haskell. Hey Greta and Megan, how are you doing?
Greta: Hi, Matty.
Megan: We're good. Always happy to talk on the podcast.
Meet Greta Boris and Megan Haskell
Matty: I always love to talk with you guys. so just in case anyone, doesn't know about you guys, Greta Boris is a USA Today bestselling mystery and thriller author, and Megan Haskell is an award-winning fantasy adventure author. And together they founded the Author Wheel, publishers of books, courses, and a podcast to help writers overcome roadblocks and keep their stories rolling.
With over 25 years of writing and publishing experience between them, they've made the mistakes so you don't have to. And, Megan and Greta were last guests on episode 184, Planning a Novel.
Why a focus on author purpose?
Matty: So, I invited them back, because I wanted to talk about a topic that I know they have both thought about deeply, which is uncovering your author purpose, and I always like to start out these kind of conversations saying, What did you see in either your own author career or the career of the, authors you interact with that suggested that uncovering your author purpose was an important message to get out there? And, Megan, I will start with you. What do you think about that?
Megan: So this is actually a topic that is very near and dear to my heart. Greta and I are both, you know, Achiever personalities. And I in particular am a Type A Achiever, which is just like cherry on top of that, that particular ice cream sundae. and What happened for me, I'll tell my story, and that's that when I first started writing, it was all about that creative outlet.
I was sitting on the train, commuting into work every day, reading a lot of books, which was great, but I needed, and I had a number crunching job. I was an accountant, a forensic accountant, actually, at one of the big accounting firms, and so I needed that, creative moment in time where I could just sit with myself and process things and do something new and unique and You know, artistic.
And so that's how I started. But because of who I am and my personality and all these other things, once I started publishing, I immediately started going, okay, how do I make money doing this? How do I make this business? How do I like, and you start doing that grind and that, that churn on trying to, you know, You know, be a six figure, seven figure author and how you can't be successful or say you've achieved anything until you've actually hit those metrics, which is honestly kind of ridiculous because there are very, very few seven figure authors out there, So, for me, I had to come back to, why am I writing? It is not, it was never intended to be this grind. It was a creative outlet, and I needed to understand that piece of myself, and that piece of my own mission, why I'm telling stories, what drew me to this art, what I'm trying to bring to readers, all of those issues were incredibly important for finding the satisfaction I needed in the writing and bringing back the joy of writing itself.
Matty: I love the answer. Greta, what, what, attracts you to the idea of author purpose?
Greta: So, I mean, I also had a little come to Jesus meeting with myself, as my career progressed, but, I'll take it a different way. Megan and I were teaching quite a bit at conferences in the oily days, and we were teaching on, independent publishing versus traditional publishing.
At the time Megan was indie, I was traditional. And so we were kind of just trying to give people the broad scope. And what I really noticed was there's a lot of people who had just swallowed a line, like a something they'd heard as truth. And thought this is what you have to do. And they never stopped to figure out what they particularly were trying to accomplish.
You know, so you'd meet, people who were retired and had written their bucket list book, you know, that the book they never had time to write when they were corporate or whatever. And now they're in their sixties, they've written their first book. It's not particularly saleable, but it's their book and it's cool that they did it, but they think they have to pitch agents.
And they think that the only way they're going to get published.is if they get, you know, Penguin Random House to pick up their book and it's like that's just chances of that happening are kind of like getting bit by a shark, you know, so it's I
Matty: an interesting analogy.
Greta: My son is a surfer, so we use this analogy frequently, although his chances of being bit by a shark are probably greater than the average person's. But I digress.
Matty: You're swimming with sharks.
Greta: Exactly. So, so we began, we actually started this concept with this little thing we did called an author personality quiz, and it was just kind of to help people realize that no, not everybody needs to get an agent and not everybody needs to be an authorpreneur either and study all the things there is about indie publishing and learn how to do crazy Facebook ads and run book club ads and do all that.
Not everybody needs to do that. Some people Just need to do a good job and maybe get some help and publish that one book and send the link to all their friends and family and that's what's going to satisfy them. So, that's kind of where it started, but then as we began to work more and more with authors who are more similar to us, you know, trying to actually at least cover their costs with their publishing life or maybe make a few bucks, then it became honed into more of a, well, there's so many ways that you can do this.
So, what are you actually trying to accomplish? Who are you? And that kind of thing. So that’s where we started kind of getting deeper into, what is your author purpose?
Understanding your priorities and circumstances
Matty: Well, that is, uh, really resonates with me for two reasons. One is that it was interesting because I was putting together a presentation, for people who didn't know anything about publishing. It was going to be, if you want to indie publish, here are the options. And I organized, just for the part that was like production and distribution, I organized it from kindle if you value money over time, and then if you value time over money, and so the first level I put was, if you want to get your book out there to a lot of different places, and you're not really worried about how much money you make, then just do it all through Draft2Digital, because you can get to, Pretty much anywhere that most people in the American market are going to want to get to.
You can do it through ebook and print. And you only have to go to one place. You only have to deal with one company. and it's the most time efficient way. And I showed that to a couple of, my fellow indie authors, and they were all horrified that I would suggest to somebody that they not at least go direct to Amazon.
I was like, yeah, because, you know, I think all three of us and probably many of the listeners want to make some money and there are financial reasons that you would want to go to Amazon Direct and not through Draft2Digital. But if you just want to get your book out there and you don't care how much money you're going to make and you don't have very much time, you know what, Draft2Digital is the way to go.
Greta: We'll do it for you.
Matty: yeah, they'll do it for you.
Megan: And I think that's so key right there, and that's why I think the mission statement is not just for how you're developing your author strategy, it's also, it's internal and external. It's both pieces coming together, because you have to understand what your own goals are before you can decide what strategy you want to pursue.
and They're all valid strategies, they're all valid reasons for writing or publishing, whether you're what we called in that author personality, quiz, the bucket lister, who's just written a book because it was something they always wanted to do and they just had one story that they wanted to tell or it's their memoir or whatever, that's the bucket lister.
Or maybe you're what we called a calling card writer, which is someone who has a business, and that book is going to support that business. It's going to be your calling card. Calling Card, hence the name. and then there's the artist and the entrepreneur. And we had all these different personalities, and the concept has really evolved over time, but ultimately it comes down to understanding yourself, your goals, your motivations, and your processes so that you can find that satisfaction and reach the right kinds of readers in the right places and the right way over time, whatever that length of time is for you. I think that's so, it's so important to have both of those aspects when you're considering, you know, what you're doing and why. Why, why pick this job, this horrible, painful, wonderful job, if you don't have to?
Matty: That said, I love the names you're throwing out, like the bucket list and the calling card, the entrepreneur. I think that this idea of, having those kinds of, that kind of terminology for these different purposes is really great.
Understanding what's "you"
Matty: And the other reason that this resonates with me is that, So, we're recording this toward the end of March in 2024, and at the end of 2023, I made a resolution for myself, which was that I was going to stop cutting myself off from possible financial benefits for personal reasons. This isn't quite the right way to describe it, but as an example, I'm working with someone to try to improve, engagement with my YouTube channel.
And I look at, across all the big name YouTube channels out there, especially ones that are author facing, And a lot of them have the, the thumbnail with the person having the very dramatic facial expression, oh, and, he said, well, you know, that's what's popular. You should do that. And I was like, oh, no, I couldn't do that.
Greta: It’s not me.
Matty: Exactly. And so, and I haven't yet. and I realized that although. Oh, and the same thing, I could generalize this to like book covers, you know, sometimes people will say if you just put like Haunted House on the front of your Ann Kinnear books, you'd sell more.
And I was like, Oh, no, no. And I think in 2024 was when I was going to try to get over that, just get over myself and do the things that were going to make these more financially viable. And in some cases, I have been in some cases, I'm just like, I don't know. Evidently, the making the money isn't the top priority for me. This is me is the most important for me, which I think is very much in line with what you're saying about author purpose.
Greta: And I do think that in the long run, you're better off. Doing the, this is me, because that's something else for those of us who've been around for a little bit, I've seen is it's almost like when somebody decides to write to market, but it isn't really the book series or this that, that they want to write.
It's not like I'm going to take this thing I want to write and I'm going to tweak it a little bit, pivot it a little bit. Toward the market, that I think is one thing, but when somebody just like pulls from air, Megan's a fantasy writer, a little bit of romance in her books, but she hears romantasy is the big thing, so now all of a sudden, she decides to write some like Hot spicy fairy thing, but it's not her. And so is it going to come across? Is it going to seem genuine? Is it going to work? And is it going to have legs? Is it going to have longevity? My guess is no.
Megan: Even if the book itself initially does well with readers, if it hits the market just right, you've analyzed things properly or whatever for your go to market strategy, if you don't love that book, you're not going to want to promote it. You're not going to want to build that long term. And so for me, again, going back to my story, it's more important for me to put my heart and soul in those books and take my time and tell the story the way I want to tell it.
And if I need to go back and revise it a few times than so be it. Or if I adjust my, my, not that I outlined, but my plot points or whatever. You know, a few times, that satisfies that artistic piece of my soul, and then once that book comes out, I know I'm going to love it, and I'm going to be able to keep pushing that series.
And so, even my debut series, right now I'm actually in the process as we record this of, putting together a Kickstarter for a special edition of my debut novel, because I still love that story! Even though it came out originally in 2015, it's almost a decade old! But, but I still love that story, because I wrote it from the heart, and not from the market.
Writing with a goal of marketability
Megan: And that works for me. Now, other people, some people come to writing, and this is, you know, this is not a negative thing. Some people come to writing going, I'm a good writer. I can do this. I can tell stories. I can make money doing this. And they can write really fast, and they come at it from that perspective essentially from day one and that works for them.
And I think that's just a different business model. It's a different strategy. But knowing that about them versus knowing what I know about me changes how you approach this business.
Matty: also think it depends on if you've established, a relationship with a piece of work. And so, you know, I was, I started my first book in 2011, so, you know, I've learned a lot, both from a business and a creative point of view since then. But I had set that series on a trajectory that I wanted to stick with because I enjoyed it.
But I have now six books in my one series, I'm. By the end of this time next year, I'll probably have six books in my other series. It's like a nice little package of two series, and I can imagine writing a standalone and doing it much more Intentionally, from a marketability point of view than I did with my other books, because both of those series were just kind of like the books of my heart, but saying, you can see “Save the Cat Writes a Novel” on my table back here, studying that carefully and saying, you know what, I'm going to, step through this and I'm going to see what it, you know, where it takes me because it's not that I creatively object to that approach, it's just that I can't now apply that to books that already have their own personality.
So I feel like I could shift my author purpose for a completely new product, but I can't shift in mid series for something that's already established in my mind and heart.
Megan: think that makes a lot of sense. I also think doing that process of going through the Save the Cat book is such great practice. I mean, being able to do that for a standalone one book project because you want to learn and because you want to do more, try something different, totally valuable experience, but a very different experience than, as you said, the series from the heart.
Matty: Yeah, I was talking with somebody about that, and they said, oh, you're going to go back and apply that structure. as a study to your early books, and I was like, oh God, I don't think so, because I don't want to find out that, you know, oh, I only have seven beats or, you know, in whatever way I'm deviating from whatever the best practices are.
And I said, no, that's like a, that's a done thing. I'm going to set that aside. I'm going to let it, you know, let it live on its own. It's popular with readers, so I'm not going to mess with that. But going forward, from some point going forward, it would be an interesting study.
Your evolution as an author
Greta: Well, also, as Megan said, going through this kind of, process, you do change, you know, like who you are as a, as an author in your first couple of books is not probably who you are as an author today. And also your, your goals, your motivations and all those things will change over time. And it's funny that, we'll talk about this later, I'm sure, but we have a free course on our website, about this.
What stays consistent over time
Greta: And. A lot of the questions we ask are things that even go back to childhood, because you'll, you, I think that most of us have certain themes that are just in our hearts. Those are the themes that we are the most, that resonate with us, that we really, you know, so If you have certain themes in your heart, chances are even if you changed genres, like even if I said to myself, I'm not going to, I want to try writing something that isn't mystery thriller, you know, I want to try writing a sci fi.
I do love sci fi. I bet you it would still have a lot of those themes that were in my mystery thrillers because I can't help myself. That's where I, this is where I come from. And so those are some of those are the kinds of things that we do explore in that little course because I think understanding yourself also can help you to find those reader connections so that, say, I have people who love my one series which is, more humorous mystery.
How many of those readers can I move over to my more psychological suspense that isn't funny? Not all of them, but if they understand the things that are near and dear to my heart as a writer, I bet you a lot more of them are going to come over so I can highlight those things. You know, the things that attract people to a Greta Boris book.
It's still a Greta Boris book over here, even though it's a slightly different genre. So understanding those things about yourself can even help you, put your best foot forward with readers.
Matty: Well, that's a really nice harking back to an episode I did recently with Pamela Fagan Hutchins, where she was talking about moving from indie publishing, her books to, getting a deal with Bookouture. And she was talking very explicitly about this idea of having to kind of mount a campaign with her followers saying, everybody just calm down.
It's still me out here. it's going to be a little bit different, the, like she was moving from, from more of a, like an amateur. Sleuth kind of scenario to a, or a thriller scenario to a police procedural scenario. And being very intentional about saying to her readers, you know, yes, it's a different cast of characters. Yes, it's a different genre, but it's still, I'm still here. I think she even said that it's still me behind the pen.
Megan: I think that's exactly right. I think there are elements that carry through all of our stories. It kind of has to be that way. And in fact, I’ll tell another little story on myself too. I didn't realize I wrote Portal Fantasy until a year or two ago when a friend pointed it out and he was like, yeah, you realize all your books are portal fantasy, right?
And I was like, no, I've got like this, like more epic thing and I've got this action adventure, secondary world thing, and I've got this contemporary. Urban, paranormal thing, it's like no no no, but they all travel between worlds okay, yes, you're right,
Greta: We, we have a mutual friend who writes in all different genres. I mean, she's got young adult, she's got romance, she's got time travel, she's all over the map. And, she was like on her, I don't know, ninth book or something, and one of her friends said, It's so interesting how you manage to explore the concept of life after death in every single one of these genres.
And she goes, I do? She was like, really? And then she went and looked at her own books and she was like, gobsmacked. Yes, I do. And it's so funny. Sometimes we don't even realize what we're doing because so much of the story's telling is coming from our subconscious.
Matty: I do think that there are, those are all great examples of things that, the author themselves is probably going to be the last one to realize.
Mine your fiction preferences for clarity about your author purpose
Matty: A couple of times we've mentioned this idea of how the things you like to read match or are different from the things you like to write. And I know one of your theories is that you can mine your fiction preferences for clarity about author purpose.
Megan: um, yeah, no, I think that's so key, and I think sometimes that's why the go to market strategy doesn't work for some authors, because, we are drawn to writing typically for most people because we're drawn to reading. We're drawn to story. And what kind of story we enjoy reading is generally going to be the kind of story that we enjoy writing.
So, you know, if you're like, as a kid, I read fantasy, like from, I think my dad gave me, The Hobbit originally in like fourth grade. And from that point forward, if I had a free book, you know, fun reading book. It was. 90 percent of the time, it was a fantasy book. And so I went through all of Tolkien, I went through Anne McCaffrey, I went through Anne Rice, all these different authors, and the thing that ultimately, starting probably in high school through college and everything, again, for the fun, enjoyable reading, not school reading, which is entirely different, but for that fun stuff, It was that action adventure, female led protagonist, okay, Tolkien aside, that got me in, but after that, but the female, you know, the female led story, the kick ass heroine, the, adventure across different realms and quests that escape into other lives and lifestyles and all of that, that was what I loved to read.
And what's interesting is that When I went to go write my epic, I really struggled because I actually, even though it's still fantasy, epic is not the thing that I really enjoy reading. I like a faster pace. I like a little bit less description. I like something that's a little bit more, contained and, A little bit more thrilleresque, right?
That's what I enjoy reading. So I had to come back to that style to be satisfied in my own writing. And so I think that's true for most people when they're writing. Like if you're going in saying, I'm going to write, I've never read a romance in my entire life, I'm going to go write a romance--
Greta: Because that's what's selling.
Megan: Yeah, because I can make seven figures selling spicy romance. Maybe you will, but is that, again, going to satisfy that artistic piece of your soul? Which, this is an art, you know, we sometimes forget that, I think, but it is an art, and so finding that satisfaction is kind of key. So I think looking back at how you progressed through your own reading, what genres, what styles, what tropes you've enjoyed as a reader will really lend itself to that sustainability in your author career.
The roll of tropes
Matty: So, we've been talking, a lot about, personal preferences and genre and so on, but I, but you just mentioned something that I think is very important, which is tropes, and,
but the other thing that I'm going to do, in addition to using the, Save the Cat or whatever, structure thing I land on, is that I'm going to go through and I'm going to highlight all the tropes that I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I love that.
And then see if I can figure out a way to work that in. Am I working against the whole author purpose concept, or is this all legit stuff?
Greta: No, it's legit because, I also, we do talk about this in our, course on genre, is that, Often, if you were to just try to write a staple standard story, like you took the beats, the romance beats, and you went, okay, first you have the meet cute, and then you have the this, and then you have the, and you did all that, that could be an AI book.
I mean, that's pretty dang formulaic, right? What makes a book more unique, or writing more unique, is the whole idea that I love. A lot of tropes that come from horror, but they don't write horror. But hey, I got some pretty scary stories, bits in my stories, because those horror things can come through those tropes that I'm kind of pulling.
Also, I love post-apocalyptic fiction, but I don't write it. But there are tropes in post-apocalyptic fiction that I might pull, probably not even consciously, but subconsciously, and inject them into my stories, that are humorous mysteries. So, and that's what can really make a story, uniquely yours because Megan and I like to teach in that, in those courses that what readers really love is they love something familiar with a twist. If you're too out there, you're not going to get a whole lot of, at least readers who aren't stoned.
Megan: If you're too out there, it's more a problem of not being able to market it, quite honestly, because you have to be able to explain It's this balancing act. You have to be able to explain what you're writing, what your story is about, and you have to make that familiar, because the familiarity is what people will resonate with.
That's what's going to, they know what to expect, right? But at the same time, you have to twist it. And so you have to add in some other things. So if you go too far out, it just seems like it's all over the place. Like, this is, there are too many mismatched things, and I don't know what this is. I'm not going to read this.
I'm not going to buy it. Even if it's a fabulous story, I don't know what it is, so I'm not going to spend money on it. so I think that's really important, too, is understanding, what those You know, yes, like having those tropes in your story, making the familiar with a twist, but being able to sell it is where the, where, that's where the go to market strategy goes for me.
Having a unifying theme as a "hub"
Matty: I have a wheel metaphor that you guys have probably already come up with, but, it's new for me, so I'm going to share it, and you can tell me if it's in line with the author wheel concept, and that is that I think as long as there's the unifying hub, and so, the way I've thought about this in the past is, Outfit, putting together an outfit.
So you can, let's say you got a new shirt. Just bear with me. And you say, I really want to wear this new shirt. And you know what I this scarf would look really good with a shirt. And you know what would look really good with a scarf, this pair of pants, and I love it. The shoes that go with this pair of pants are great.
And then that I, when I wear these shoes, I always want to wear this hat. And then you stand back, and you think, what have I done? Because I have this, now I have this completely sort of discombobulated outfit where the hat has no connection to the shirt that started it all off. But if you say, I like the, I love the shirt, and I want to have a scarf to wear with it.
Okay, now I'm going to go back to the shirt, I'm going to say, what pants do I want with it? Now I'm going to go back to the shirt and say, what shoes do I want to wear with it? And then you have a unified look. And in the same way, if you have some kind of driving theme, like for me, a driving theme in my books is what happens when an extraordinary ability transforms an ordinary life?
Because I like that. I'm just going to tweak one thing. I'm going to take a world that's largely realistic. I'm going to tweak one thing in it. But you know what? I really love this horror trope and I'm going to see how that relates to this idea of the extraordinary ability. Oh, I love this, this romance trope.
I'm going to see how that relates. so you have the spokes, you have the hub idea, but you have the spokes that, are all connected to the hub. What do you author feelers think about that?
Greta: Love it. We have not used that analogy, but we're going to steal it! That's a good one. It's true in decorating too. if you're going to redo a room often they say to choose an inspiration piece, so sometimes it's a piece of art, and sometimes it's a piece of furniture, sometimes it's whatever it is, and then you kind of build a harmonious whole around that inspiration piece, and I had never thought about that with writing before, but I love it. A good way of looking at things.
Megan: and I think, to take this back to an earlier point in our conversation as well, that hub, that, that central piece is going to be the element that has drawn you to reading, has drawn you to fiction your entire life. So that's going to be, that's where that mining the history and then layering on the fun tropes, it all comes together.
Matty: I do think that my, Lizzy Ballard book, I'm working on the fifth book now. I think I will wrap up the Lizzy Ballard storyline largely in six books. And then I have an idea for a spinoff, a spinoff character that I could build another series on. And I think it would be fairly easy to make it more, you know, Center of genre, as, Sasha Black talks about, that if you're center of genre, then it's a more easily marketable work because people understand what they're signing up for, and that this would be a super cool way, this idea of the driving idea, and these other things we've been talking about would be, I'm all excited about jumping ahead to that.
The danger of shiny thing syndrome
Greta: I know. That's so, that's one of the hard things about this writing life is that books take a long time to write, and we get so many fun and exciting ideas and things we want to do. And we have to, whoa, Nellie, slow down, because you got to finish what you started which is also a point. I'm in favor of this whole under, you know, know thyself, understand your author mission, your author purpose, because we are most writers that I know are very creative, you know, very, it's the most fascinating people in the world.
I love writers. Because of that, they're interested in so many things, they really fall prey to Shiny Thing Syndrome. And that's when, especially writers who can write really fast, sometimes you can see a big fat hot mess in their backlist like nobody knows what they're doing. And I do think that there is a point for that, for understanding your I love your author purpose and mission because, you know, it'll help you choose which of those shiny things actually are going to help you further your goals and your purposes.
Like a spinoff on your Lizzy Ballard series that makes perfect sense. But if you all of a sudden decided to write Ukrainian cookbooks, it might not help your purpose. Backlist that all, you know.
Matty: Yes, exactly. Well, my terror, it's always that, somebody’s going to expect me to write romance and I'm like, oh my god, nobody, no, nobody needs to read that, it'd be the world's worst.
Megan: I keep getting a lot of that from people too, oh, you should just write, just get it steamy and it'll sell.
Matty: I had a scene in one of my Ann Kinnear books, everybody always wants Ann Kinnear to you know, have a romantic relationship with someone. I was like, okay, fine, but, you know, it's all going to happen off the page. But there's a scene in one of my books where the scene starts out and Ann is lying in bed and she hears this other character, you know, one of the male characters that everybody wants her to get together with, she hears his voice a couple of feet away and my editor said he was reading it, he was like, a couple of feet away, that seems weird, and as it turns out, spoiler alert, he's not in bed with her, he's, there's someone stalking her and he, who is, he's a police officer and he's sitting in the room with her so that when the stalker arrives, he'll be there to protect her.
Greta: That's pretty funny. We were talking to an audiobook narrator. who, I can't remember if it was a book she wrote or a book she was just narrating, but it had steamy stuff and she thought she was going to be fine with it. And she said she had to keep stopping and giggling and then get back into narrating. It was like she was really struggling with it. She's yeah, maybe this isn't my genre, you know,
Matty: Yeah, that would be tough. I always want to ask somebody who writes steamy romance, I'm such a teenager, because what I want to ask them is, do your parents read this? So how do they think about it? Because that's all I could think of. If my parents were still around and I was writing steamy stuff, I'd just be like, oh god, I hope mom and dad aren't reading this.
Greta: or worse to your, are your children reading this? Yeah. Now that my kids are adults.
Matty: Yeah. Okay. Well, then we're just, I'm just reflecting my own personal, deep-seated issues with this discussion.
Creating a reader-focused tagline
Matty: But the last topic that we had agreed to talk about was, turning everything we've talked about into a reader focused tagline. And I think this is an interesting way to bring together the idea of understanding your author purpose from a creative point of view and understanding your author purpose from a business point of view.
that this is the, you know, the reader focused tagline is what you're putting out there to hopefully attract readers and make your book financially successful. So, Is this in fact a way, like, how do you reconcile those two things if perhaps you feel like your author purpose, your creative and your business author purposes are not in alignment and maybe that shows up as you start thinking about more reader focused things like the tagline.
Megan, I'm going to throw that out to you.
The importance of alignment between your creative and business focuses
Megan: Sure. So first off, I would say get that into alignment. I mean, that's really the core point of our seven days to what it's seven days to clarity. How to build your mission statement course. It's once you understand where you're coming from, your past, what you're doing now, what you, what your goals are, what you want to, you know, achieve for readers, those, what kinds of readers you want to attract, that's, that should lead into what you're writing.
And then that writing should lead into a tagline. So my tagline, for example, is escape into myth, magic, and mayhem. All my books have myth, they all have magic, and they all have mayhem. They're action, fantasy, adventure. Right? That's what I write. And so if you can say that quickly and express that to readers, you're more likely to be able to have that Comprehensive or unified backlist or future list as you continue to write.
So I think that's, one of the things that we've seen from some of our other author friends. We're talking about, you know, fast writers who have this massive backlist and it's just all over the place. Finding that unifying theme and then packaging your books in a way to Identify that theme for, you know, for your readers and bring that all together and package it all up into a single tagline.
It might be really hard to do, but we believe there will be a way to do that. That there will be a unifying element or theme or concept within your backlist that you can find and bring to light into your own tagline.
Different pen names for different purposes
Greta: And sometimes it's pen names. Sometimes that helps people recognize, like if you absolutely can't, and you've got six books over here that do one thing, and then you've got four books over here that do another thing, maybe. You need two pen names. And then you could have a purpose for each, for each version of yourself and a tagline for each version of yourself.
So that's another thing that we do talk about a little bit in that course. It's if you can't pull it all together, can you separate it into one or two pen names? You know, is that, will that help the process? You know, my tagline is murders that hit home and it's because I tend, even my suspense or more domestic suspense, I don't have police procedurals.
I don't have, you know, Navy SEALs or global espionage or it's all. Tucked here in Southern California, which is where I live, and they all kind of revolve around personalities and relationships because that's what fascinates me. So I think that, and then I realized, you know, that tagline works for my mortician mysteries, which are cozier, cozyesque, paranormal, funnier.
And then my almost true crime series that's coming out, which is It's almost true crime, which is not that funny and it's not as cozy, but they're both still murders that hit home. They have those common themes, which are, you know, I like to explore the psychology and the relationships and why do people commit crimes and those kinds of things. That's going to come out in all my books.
Megan: And they all have dead bodies.
Greta: Oh, absolutely.
Matty: Yeah, and I think that it's nice because you've both picked taglines where you are sending a very clear, message to the reader and that if someone, you know, reads Murders and Home in the same sentence or you, they read, Myths of Mayhem in the same sentence then it's going to give a very clear, and helpful idea to them of whether your books are for them or not.
Megan: I've been thinking about, I'm going to have a standalone coming out probably later this year that is not, you know, both my existing series, there is this, The Extraordinary Ability that Transforms the Ordinary Life, it's a different Extraordinary Ability in each series, but that's the common theme, but I'm thinking I almost need to tweak the tagline for that one very explicitly to be, What happens when an ordinary person is faced with extraordinary circumstances, or some flavor of that, because I like that juxtaposition of the ordinary and the extraordinary, but in this it's a little bit, you know, It's the idea of an ordinary person stepping up to, to deal with an extraordinary situation.
Matty: So, but there's still consistency there, I think.
Different taglines for the author and the books
Greta: with which your tagline, your, and so this is something too that we teach in the courses that a book tagline is different than an author tagline. And an author tagline is more all-encompassing. Whereas a book like, you know, the mortician mystery is I've been playing around with different taglines for the different titles, but it's usually like a paranormal mortician murder or, something like that's very targeted to that series.
But like an author mission, like yours could be something like where the extraordinary meets the ordinary or where the ordinary meets the extraordinary, because then it would work whichever way you wanted to play with that. Yeah. I won't even charge you for that one.
Matty: We're trading for the clothing and hub thing in exchange for the tagline.
Greta: Exactly. But we do have a little fill in the, several little fill in the blanks kind of things to help people build their tagline. So it's not just now come up with this, it's like you're doing these fill in the blank sentences and then you're editing them and you're, so we do have some steps to that to make it easier.
Matty: Well and I know that you guys have resources to help us out. Can you describe what those are and, where people can go to find them? Megan, I'll throw it out to you.
Megan: sure. So, if you go to authorwheel.com slash stuff, that's where we have all of our current freebies. when you know, subscribe to our list, you get, you can get all of them or download all of them. The one that we are talking about the most in this podcast is the Seven Days to Clarity Uncover your author purpose, and it is a seven-day free little email mini course. we are actually currently as we record this in the process of converting it from like strict email to a more online course where you'll just get a new lesson every day. But you'll still just go over to authorwheel.com slash stuff to sign up and check that out.
Matty: So cool. And I want to uh, give you both a chance to just, direct people to your, fiction writing as well. So, Greta, why don't you, let us know where people can go to find that?
Greta: Yeah. Well, everything that I'm doing is at GretaBoris.com. And I also have, of course, a novella in the mortician mystery world, mortician murder world there for you. It's called Mortuary School. And you can find out what happens when Imogene Lynch goes to Mortuary School.
Matty: Excellent. And Megan, how about you? Where can people find out more about your fiction work?
Megan: Sure, so I'm at MeganHaskell. com, and for mine, you can actually download, I sell all my books in all formats that I have available on my website directly, but the first book, in the Sanyari Chronicles, The Last Descendant, is available for free on my website in ebook form, so you can just go there and download that for free, and then I have some other short stories and things that are available as well.
Matty: So cool. Well, thank you so much, you guys. Always lovely to chat with you. And, thank you for, shedding some light on the author purpose.
Megan: Absolutely, anytime.
Greta: Thanks for having us on, Matty.
Greta: Hi, Matty.
Megan: We're good. Always happy to talk on the podcast.
Meet Greta Boris and Megan Haskell
Matty: I always love to talk with you guys. so just in case anyone, doesn't know about you guys, Greta Boris is a USA Today bestselling mystery and thriller author, and Megan Haskell is an award-winning fantasy adventure author. And together they founded the Author Wheel, publishers of books, courses, and a podcast to help writers overcome roadblocks and keep their stories rolling.
With over 25 years of writing and publishing experience between them, they've made the mistakes so you don't have to. And, Megan and Greta were last guests on episode 184, Planning a Novel.
Why a focus on author purpose?
Matty: So, I invited them back, because I wanted to talk about a topic that I know they have both thought about deeply, which is uncovering your author purpose, and I always like to start out these kind of conversations saying, What did you see in either your own author career or the career of the, authors you interact with that suggested that uncovering your author purpose was an important message to get out there? And, Megan, I will start with you. What do you think about that?
Megan: So this is actually a topic that is very near and dear to my heart. Greta and I are both, you know, Achiever personalities. And I in particular am a Type A Achiever, which is just like cherry on top of that, that particular ice cream sundae. and What happened for me, I'll tell my story, and that's that when I first started writing, it was all about that creative outlet.
I was sitting on the train, commuting into work every day, reading a lot of books, which was great, but I needed, and I had a number crunching job. I was an accountant, a forensic accountant, actually, at one of the big accounting firms, and so I needed that, creative moment in time where I could just sit with myself and process things and do something new and unique and You know, artistic.
And so that's how I started. But because of who I am and my personality and all these other things, once I started publishing, I immediately started going, okay, how do I make money doing this? How do I make this business? How do I like, and you start doing that grind and that, that churn on trying to, you know, You know, be a six figure, seven figure author and how you can't be successful or say you've achieved anything until you've actually hit those metrics, which is honestly kind of ridiculous because there are very, very few seven figure authors out there, So, for me, I had to come back to, why am I writing? It is not, it was never intended to be this grind. It was a creative outlet, and I needed to understand that piece of myself, and that piece of my own mission, why I'm telling stories, what drew me to this art, what I'm trying to bring to readers, all of those issues were incredibly important for finding the satisfaction I needed in the writing and bringing back the joy of writing itself.
Matty: I love the answer. Greta, what, what, attracts you to the idea of author purpose?
Greta: So, I mean, I also had a little come to Jesus meeting with myself, as my career progressed, but, I'll take it a different way. Megan and I were teaching quite a bit at conferences in the oily days, and we were teaching on, independent publishing versus traditional publishing.
At the time Megan was indie, I was traditional. And so we were kind of just trying to give people the broad scope. And what I really noticed was there's a lot of people who had just swallowed a line, like a something they'd heard as truth. And thought this is what you have to do. And they never stopped to figure out what they particularly were trying to accomplish.
You know, so you'd meet, people who were retired and had written their bucket list book, you know, that the book they never had time to write when they were corporate or whatever. And now they're in their sixties, they've written their first book. It's not particularly saleable, but it's their book and it's cool that they did it, but they think they have to pitch agents.
And they think that the only way they're going to get published.is if they get, you know, Penguin Random House to pick up their book and it's like that's just chances of that happening are kind of like getting bit by a shark, you know, so it's I
Matty: an interesting analogy.
Greta: My son is a surfer, so we use this analogy frequently, although his chances of being bit by a shark are probably greater than the average person's. But I digress.
Matty: You're swimming with sharks.
Greta: Exactly. So, so we began, we actually started this concept with this little thing we did called an author personality quiz, and it was just kind of to help people realize that no, not everybody needs to get an agent and not everybody needs to be an authorpreneur either and study all the things there is about indie publishing and learn how to do crazy Facebook ads and run book club ads and do all that.
Not everybody needs to do that. Some people Just need to do a good job and maybe get some help and publish that one book and send the link to all their friends and family and that's what's going to satisfy them. So, that's kind of where it started, but then as we began to work more and more with authors who are more similar to us, you know, trying to actually at least cover their costs with their publishing life or maybe make a few bucks, then it became honed into more of a, well, there's so many ways that you can do this.
So, what are you actually trying to accomplish? Who are you? And that kind of thing. So that’s where we started kind of getting deeper into, what is your author purpose?
Understanding your priorities and circumstances
Matty: Well, that is, uh, really resonates with me for two reasons. One is that it was interesting because I was putting together a presentation, for people who didn't know anything about publishing. It was going to be, if you want to indie publish, here are the options. And I organized, just for the part that was like production and distribution, I organized it from kindle if you value money over time, and then if you value time over money, and so the first level I put was, if you want to get your book out there to a lot of different places, and you're not really worried about how much money you make, then just do it all through Draft2Digital, because you can get to, Pretty much anywhere that most people in the American market are going to want to get to.
You can do it through ebook and print. And you only have to go to one place. You only have to deal with one company. and it's the most time efficient way. And I showed that to a couple of, my fellow indie authors, and they were all horrified that I would suggest to somebody that they not at least go direct to Amazon.
I was like, yeah, because, you know, I think all three of us and probably many of the listeners want to make some money and there are financial reasons that you would want to go to Amazon Direct and not through Draft2Digital. But if you just want to get your book out there and you don't care how much money you're going to make and you don't have very much time, you know what, Draft2Digital is the way to go.
Greta: We'll do it for you.
Matty: yeah, they'll do it for you.
Megan: And I think that's so key right there, and that's why I think the mission statement is not just for how you're developing your author strategy, it's also, it's internal and external. It's both pieces coming together, because you have to understand what your own goals are before you can decide what strategy you want to pursue.
and They're all valid strategies, they're all valid reasons for writing or publishing, whether you're what we called in that author personality, quiz, the bucket lister, who's just written a book because it was something they always wanted to do and they just had one story that they wanted to tell or it's their memoir or whatever, that's the bucket lister.
Or maybe you're what we called a calling card writer, which is someone who has a business, and that book is going to support that business. It's going to be your calling card. Calling Card, hence the name. and then there's the artist and the entrepreneur. And we had all these different personalities, and the concept has really evolved over time, but ultimately it comes down to understanding yourself, your goals, your motivations, and your processes so that you can find that satisfaction and reach the right kinds of readers in the right places and the right way over time, whatever that length of time is for you. I think that's so, it's so important to have both of those aspects when you're considering, you know, what you're doing and why. Why, why pick this job, this horrible, painful, wonderful job, if you don't have to?
Matty: That said, I love the names you're throwing out, like the bucket list and the calling card, the entrepreneur. I think that this idea of, having those kinds of, that kind of terminology for these different purposes is really great.
Understanding what's "you"
Matty: And the other reason that this resonates with me is that, So, we're recording this toward the end of March in 2024, and at the end of 2023, I made a resolution for myself, which was that I was going to stop cutting myself off from possible financial benefits for personal reasons. This isn't quite the right way to describe it, but as an example, I'm working with someone to try to improve, engagement with my YouTube channel.
And I look at, across all the big name YouTube channels out there, especially ones that are author facing, And a lot of them have the, the thumbnail with the person having the very dramatic facial expression, oh, and, he said, well, you know, that's what's popular. You should do that. And I was like, oh, no, I couldn't do that.
Greta: It’s not me.
Matty: Exactly. And so, and I haven't yet. and I realized that although. Oh, and the same thing, I could generalize this to like book covers, you know, sometimes people will say if you just put like Haunted House on the front of your Ann Kinnear books, you'd sell more.
And I was like, Oh, no, no. And I think in 2024 was when I was going to try to get over that, just get over myself and do the things that were going to make these more financially viable. And in some cases, I have been in some cases, I'm just like, I don't know. Evidently, the making the money isn't the top priority for me. This is me is the most important for me, which I think is very much in line with what you're saying about author purpose.
Greta: And I do think that in the long run, you're better off. Doing the, this is me, because that's something else for those of us who've been around for a little bit, I've seen is it's almost like when somebody decides to write to market, but it isn't really the book series or this that, that they want to write.
It's not like I'm going to take this thing I want to write and I'm going to tweak it a little bit, pivot it a little bit. Toward the market, that I think is one thing, but when somebody just like pulls from air, Megan's a fantasy writer, a little bit of romance in her books, but she hears romantasy is the big thing, so now all of a sudden, she decides to write some like Hot spicy fairy thing, but it's not her. And so is it going to come across? Is it going to seem genuine? Is it going to work? And is it going to have legs? Is it going to have longevity? My guess is no.
Megan: Even if the book itself initially does well with readers, if it hits the market just right, you've analyzed things properly or whatever for your go to market strategy, if you don't love that book, you're not going to want to promote it. You're not going to want to build that long term. And so for me, again, going back to my story, it's more important for me to put my heart and soul in those books and take my time and tell the story the way I want to tell it.
And if I need to go back and revise it a few times than so be it. Or if I adjust my, my, not that I outlined, but my plot points or whatever. You know, a few times, that satisfies that artistic piece of my soul, and then once that book comes out, I know I'm going to love it, and I'm going to be able to keep pushing that series.
And so, even my debut series, right now I'm actually in the process as we record this of, putting together a Kickstarter for a special edition of my debut novel, because I still love that story! Even though it came out originally in 2015, it's almost a decade old! But, but I still love that story, because I wrote it from the heart, and not from the market.
Writing with a goal of marketability
Megan: And that works for me. Now, other people, some people come to writing, and this is, you know, this is not a negative thing. Some people come to writing going, I'm a good writer. I can do this. I can tell stories. I can make money doing this. And they can write really fast, and they come at it from that perspective essentially from day one and that works for them.
And I think that's just a different business model. It's a different strategy. But knowing that about them versus knowing what I know about me changes how you approach this business.
Matty: also think it depends on if you've established, a relationship with a piece of work. And so, you know, I was, I started my first book in 2011, so, you know, I've learned a lot, both from a business and a creative point of view since then. But I had set that series on a trajectory that I wanted to stick with because I enjoyed it.
But I have now six books in my one series, I'm. By the end of this time next year, I'll probably have six books in my other series. It's like a nice little package of two series, and I can imagine writing a standalone and doing it much more Intentionally, from a marketability point of view than I did with my other books, because both of those series were just kind of like the books of my heart, but saying, you can see “Save the Cat Writes a Novel” on my table back here, studying that carefully and saying, you know what, I'm going to, step through this and I'm going to see what it, you know, where it takes me because it's not that I creatively object to that approach, it's just that I can't now apply that to books that already have their own personality.
So I feel like I could shift my author purpose for a completely new product, but I can't shift in mid series for something that's already established in my mind and heart.
Megan: think that makes a lot of sense. I also think doing that process of going through the Save the Cat book is such great practice. I mean, being able to do that for a standalone one book project because you want to learn and because you want to do more, try something different, totally valuable experience, but a very different experience than, as you said, the series from the heart.
Matty: Yeah, I was talking with somebody about that, and they said, oh, you're going to go back and apply that structure. as a study to your early books, and I was like, oh God, I don't think so, because I don't want to find out that, you know, oh, I only have seven beats or, you know, in whatever way I'm deviating from whatever the best practices are.
And I said, no, that's like a, that's a done thing. I'm going to set that aside. I'm going to let it, you know, let it live on its own. It's popular with readers, so I'm not going to mess with that. But going forward, from some point going forward, it would be an interesting study.
Your evolution as an author
Greta: Well, also, as Megan said, going through this kind of, process, you do change, you know, like who you are as a, as an author in your first couple of books is not probably who you are as an author today. And also your, your goals, your motivations and all those things will change over time. And it's funny that, we'll talk about this later, I'm sure, but we have a free course on our website, about this.
What stays consistent over time
Greta: And. A lot of the questions we ask are things that even go back to childhood, because you'll, you, I think that most of us have certain themes that are just in our hearts. Those are the themes that we are the most, that resonate with us, that we really, you know, so If you have certain themes in your heart, chances are even if you changed genres, like even if I said to myself, I'm not going to, I want to try writing something that isn't mystery thriller, you know, I want to try writing a sci fi.
I do love sci fi. I bet you it would still have a lot of those themes that were in my mystery thrillers because I can't help myself. That's where I, this is where I come from. And so those are some of those are the kinds of things that we do explore in that little course because I think understanding yourself also can help you to find those reader connections so that, say, I have people who love my one series which is, more humorous mystery.
How many of those readers can I move over to my more psychological suspense that isn't funny? Not all of them, but if they understand the things that are near and dear to my heart as a writer, I bet you a lot more of them are going to come over so I can highlight those things. You know, the things that attract people to a Greta Boris book.
It's still a Greta Boris book over here, even though it's a slightly different genre. So understanding those things about yourself can even help you, put your best foot forward with readers.
Matty: Well, that's a really nice harking back to an episode I did recently with Pamela Fagan Hutchins, where she was talking about moving from indie publishing, her books to, getting a deal with Bookouture. And she was talking very explicitly about this idea of having to kind of mount a campaign with her followers saying, everybody just calm down.
It's still me out here. it's going to be a little bit different, the, like she was moving from, from more of a, like an amateur. Sleuth kind of scenario to a, or a thriller scenario to a police procedural scenario. And being very intentional about saying to her readers, you know, yes, it's a different cast of characters. Yes, it's a different genre, but it's still, I'm still here. I think she even said that it's still me behind the pen.
Megan: I think that's exactly right. I think there are elements that carry through all of our stories. It kind of has to be that way. And in fact, I’ll tell another little story on myself too. I didn't realize I wrote Portal Fantasy until a year or two ago when a friend pointed it out and he was like, yeah, you realize all your books are portal fantasy, right?
And I was like, no, I've got like this, like more epic thing and I've got this action adventure, secondary world thing, and I've got this contemporary. Urban, paranormal thing, it's like no no no, but they all travel between worlds okay, yes, you're right,
Greta: We, we have a mutual friend who writes in all different genres. I mean, she's got young adult, she's got romance, she's got time travel, she's all over the map. And, she was like on her, I don't know, ninth book or something, and one of her friends said, It's so interesting how you manage to explore the concept of life after death in every single one of these genres.
And she goes, I do? She was like, really? And then she went and looked at her own books and she was like, gobsmacked. Yes, I do. And it's so funny. Sometimes we don't even realize what we're doing because so much of the story's telling is coming from our subconscious.
Matty: I do think that there are, those are all great examples of things that, the author themselves is probably going to be the last one to realize.
Mine your fiction preferences for clarity about your author purpose
Matty: A couple of times we've mentioned this idea of how the things you like to read match or are different from the things you like to write. And I know one of your theories is that you can mine your fiction preferences for clarity about author purpose.
Megan: um, yeah, no, I think that's so key, and I think sometimes that's why the go to market strategy doesn't work for some authors, because, we are drawn to writing typically for most people because we're drawn to reading. We're drawn to story. And what kind of story we enjoy reading is generally going to be the kind of story that we enjoy writing.
So, you know, if you're like, as a kid, I read fantasy, like from, I think my dad gave me, The Hobbit originally in like fourth grade. And from that point forward, if I had a free book, you know, fun reading book. It was. 90 percent of the time, it was a fantasy book. And so I went through all of Tolkien, I went through Anne McCaffrey, I went through Anne Rice, all these different authors, and the thing that ultimately, starting probably in high school through college and everything, again, for the fun, enjoyable reading, not school reading, which is entirely different, but for that fun stuff, It was that action adventure, female led protagonist, okay, Tolkien aside, that got me in, but after that, but the female, you know, the female led story, the kick ass heroine, the, adventure across different realms and quests that escape into other lives and lifestyles and all of that, that was what I loved to read.
And what's interesting is that When I went to go write my epic, I really struggled because I actually, even though it's still fantasy, epic is not the thing that I really enjoy reading. I like a faster pace. I like a little bit less description. I like something that's a little bit more, contained and, A little bit more thrilleresque, right?
That's what I enjoy reading. So I had to come back to that style to be satisfied in my own writing. And so I think that's true for most people when they're writing. Like if you're going in saying, I'm going to write, I've never read a romance in my entire life, I'm going to go write a romance--
Greta: Because that's what's selling.
Megan: Yeah, because I can make seven figures selling spicy romance. Maybe you will, but is that, again, going to satisfy that artistic piece of your soul? Which, this is an art, you know, we sometimes forget that, I think, but it is an art, and so finding that satisfaction is kind of key. So I think looking back at how you progressed through your own reading, what genres, what styles, what tropes you've enjoyed as a reader will really lend itself to that sustainability in your author career.
The roll of tropes
Matty: So, we've been talking, a lot about, personal preferences and genre and so on, but I, but you just mentioned something that I think is very important, which is tropes, and,
but the other thing that I'm going to do, in addition to using the, Save the Cat or whatever, structure thing I land on, is that I'm going to go through and I'm going to highlight all the tropes that I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I love that.
And then see if I can figure out a way to work that in. Am I working against the whole author purpose concept, or is this all legit stuff?
Greta: No, it's legit because, I also, we do talk about this in our, course on genre, is that, Often, if you were to just try to write a staple standard story, like you took the beats, the romance beats, and you went, okay, first you have the meet cute, and then you have the this, and then you have the, and you did all that, that could be an AI book.
I mean, that's pretty dang formulaic, right? What makes a book more unique, or writing more unique, is the whole idea that I love. A lot of tropes that come from horror, but they don't write horror. But hey, I got some pretty scary stories, bits in my stories, because those horror things can come through those tropes that I'm kind of pulling.
Also, I love post-apocalyptic fiction, but I don't write it. But there are tropes in post-apocalyptic fiction that I might pull, probably not even consciously, but subconsciously, and inject them into my stories, that are humorous mysteries. So, and that's what can really make a story, uniquely yours because Megan and I like to teach in that, in those courses that what readers really love is they love something familiar with a twist. If you're too out there, you're not going to get a whole lot of, at least readers who aren't stoned.
Megan: If you're too out there, it's more a problem of not being able to market it, quite honestly, because you have to be able to explain It's this balancing act. You have to be able to explain what you're writing, what your story is about, and you have to make that familiar, because the familiarity is what people will resonate with.
That's what's going to, they know what to expect, right? But at the same time, you have to twist it. And so you have to add in some other things. So if you go too far out, it just seems like it's all over the place. Like, this is, there are too many mismatched things, and I don't know what this is. I'm not going to read this.
I'm not going to buy it. Even if it's a fabulous story, I don't know what it is, so I'm not going to spend money on it. so I think that's really important, too, is understanding, what those You know, yes, like having those tropes in your story, making the familiar with a twist, but being able to sell it is where the, where, that's where the go to market strategy goes for me.
Having a unifying theme as a "hub"
Matty: I have a wheel metaphor that you guys have probably already come up with, but, it's new for me, so I'm going to share it, and you can tell me if it's in line with the author wheel concept, and that is that I think as long as there's the unifying hub, and so, the way I've thought about this in the past is, Outfit, putting together an outfit.
So you can, let's say you got a new shirt. Just bear with me. And you say, I really want to wear this new shirt. And you know what I this scarf would look really good with a shirt. And you know what would look really good with a scarf, this pair of pants, and I love it. The shoes that go with this pair of pants are great.
And then that I, when I wear these shoes, I always want to wear this hat. And then you stand back, and you think, what have I done? Because I have this, now I have this completely sort of discombobulated outfit where the hat has no connection to the shirt that started it all off. But if you say, I like the, I love the shirt, and I want to have a scarf to wear with it.
Okay, now I'm going to go back to the shirt, I'm going to say, what pants do I want with it? Now I'm going to go back to the shirt and say, what shoes do I want to wear with it? And then you have a unified look. And in the same way, if you have some kind of driving theme, like for me, a driving theme in my books is what happens when an extraordinary ability transforms an ordinary life?
Because I like that. I'm just going to tweak one thing. I'm going to take a world that's largely realistic. I'm going to tweak one thing in it. But you know what? I really love this horror trope and I'm going to see how that relates to this idea of the extraordinary ability. Oh, I love this, this romance trope.
I'm going to see how that relates. so you have the spokes, you have the hub idea, but you have the spokes that, are all connected to the hub. What do you author feelers think about that?
Greta: Love it. We have not used that analogy, but we're going to steal it! That's a good one. It's true in decorating too. if you're going to redo a room often they say to choose an inspiration piece, so sometimes it's a piece of art, and sometimes it's a piece of furniture, sometimes it's whatever it is, and then you kind of build a harmonious whole around that inspiration piece, and I had never thought about that with writing before, but I love it. A good way of looking at things.
Megan: and I think, to take this back to an earlier point in our conversation as well, that hub, that, that central piece is going to be the element that has drawn you to reading, has drawn you to fiction your entire life. So that's going to be, that's where that mining the history and then layering on the fun tropes, it all comes together.
Matty: I do think that my, Lizzy Ballard book, I'm working on the fifth book now. I think I will wrap up the Lizzy Ballard storyline largely in six books. And then I have an idea for a spinoff, a spinoff character that I could build another series on. And I think it would be fairly easy to make it more, you know, Center of genre, as, Sasha Black talks about, that if you're center of genre, then it's a more easily marketable work because people understand what they're signing up for, and that this would be a super cool way, this idea of the driving idea, and these other things we've been talking about would be, I'm all excited about jumping ahead to that.
The danger of shiny thing syndrome
Greta: I know. That's so, that's one of the hard things about this writing life is that books take a long time to write, and we get so many fun and exciting ideas and things we want to do. And we have to, whoa, Nellie, slow down, because you got to finish what you started which is also a point. I'm in favor of this whole under, you know, know thyself, understand your author mission, your author purpose, because we are most writers that I know are very creative, you know, very, it's the most fascinating people in the world.
I love writers. Because of that, they're interested in so many things, they really fall prey to Shiny Thing Syndrome. And that's when, especially writers who can write really fast, sometimes you can see a big fat hot mess in their backlist like nobody knows what they're doing. And I do think that there is a point for that, for understanding your I love your author purpose and mission because, you know, it'll help you choose which of those shiny things actually are going to help you further your goals and your purposes.
Like a spinoff on your Lizzy Ballard series that makes perfect sense. But if you all of a sudden decided to write Ukrainian cookbooks, it might not help your purpose. Backlist that all, you know.
Matty: Yes, exactly. Well, my terror, it's always that, somebody’s going to expect me to write romance and I'm like, oh my god, nobody, no, nobody needs to read that, it'd be the world's worst.
Megan: I keep getting a lot of that from people too, oh, you should just write, just get it steamy and it'll sell.
Matty: I had a scene in one of my Ann Kinnear books, everybody always wants Ann Kinnear to you know, have a romantic relationship with someone. I was like, okay, fine, but, you know, it's all going to happen off the page. But there's a scene in one of my books where the scene starts out and Ann is lying in bed and she hears this other character, you know, one of the male characters that everybody wants her to get together with, she hears his voice a couple of feet away and my editor said he was reading it, he was like, a couple of feet away, that seems weird, and as it turns out, spoiler alert, he's not in bed with her, he's, there's someone stalking her and he, who is, he's a police officer and he's sitting in the room with her so that when the stalker arrives, he'll be there to protect her.
Greta: That's pretty funny. We were talking to an audiobook narrator. who, I can't remember if it was a book she wrote or a book she was just narrating, but it had steamy stuff and she thought she was going to be fine with it. And she said she had to keep stopping and giggling and then get back into narrating. It was like she was really struggling with it. She's yeah, maybe this isn't my genre, you know,
Matty: Yeah, that would be tough. I always want to ask somebody who writes steamy romance, I'm such a teenager, because what I want to ask them is, do your parents read this? So how do they think about it? Because that's all I could think of. If my parents were still around and I was writing steamy stuff, I'd just be like, oh god, I hope mom and dad aren't reading this.
Greta: or worse to your, are your children reading this? Yeah. Now that my kids are adults.
Matty: Yeah. Okay. Well, then we're just, I'm just reflecting my own personal, deep-seated issues with this discussion.
Creating a reader-focused tagline
Matty: But the last topic that we had agreed to talk about was, turning everything we've talked about into a reader focused tagline. And I think this is an interesting way to bring together the idea of understanding your author purpose from a creative point of view and understanding your author purpose from a business point of view.
that this is the, you know, the reader focused tagline is what you're putting out there to hopefully attract readers and make your book financially successful. So, Is this in fact a way, like, how do you reconcile those two things if perhaps you feel like your author purpose, your creative and your business author purposes are not in alignment and maybe that shows up as you start thinking about more reader focused things like the tagline.
Megan, I'm going to throw that out to you.
The importance of alignment between your creative and business focuses
Megan: Sure. So first off, I would say get that into alignment. I mean, that's really the core point of our seven days to what it's seven days to clarity. How to build your mission statement course. It's once you understand where you're coming from, your past, what you're doing now, what you, what your goals are, what you want to, you know, achieve for readers, those, what kinds of readers you want to attract, that's, that should lead into what you're writing.
And then that writing should lead into a tagline. So my tagline, for example, is escape into myth, magic, and mayhem. All my books have myth, they all have magic, and they all have mayhem. They're action, fantasy, adventure. Right? That's what I write. And so if you can say that quickly and express that to readers, you're more likely to be able to have that Comprehensive or unified backlist or future list as you continue to write.
So I think that's, one of the things that we've seen from some of our other author friends. We're talking about, you know, fast writers who have this massive backlist and it's just all over the place. Finding that unifying theme and then packaging your books in a way to Identify that theme for, you know, for your readers and bring that all together and package it all up into a single tagline.
It might be really hard to do, but we believe there will be a way to do that. That there will be a unifying element or theme or concept within your backlist that you can find and bring to light into your own tagline.
Different pen names for different purposes
Greta: And sometimes it's pen names. Sometimes that helps people recognize, like if you absolutely can't, and you've got six books over here that do one thing, and then you've got four books over here that do another thing, maybe. You need two pen names. And then you could have a purpose for each, for each version of yourself and a tagline for each version of yourself.
So that's another thing that we do talk about a little bit in that course. It's if you can't pull it all together, can you separate it into one or two pen names? You know, is that, will that help the process? You know, my tagline is murders that hit home and it's because I tend, even my suspense or more domestic suspense, I don't have police procedurals.
I don't have, you know, Navy SEALs or global espionage or it's all. Tucked here in Southern California, which is where I live, and they all kind of revolve around personalities and relationships because that's what fascinates me. So I think that, and then I realized, you know, that tagline works for my mortician mysteries, which are cozier, cozyesque, paranormal, funnier.
And then my almost true crime series that's coming out, which is It's almost true crime, which is not that funny and it's not as cozy, but they're both still murders that hit home. They have those common themes, which are, you know, I like to explore the psychology and the relationships and why do people commit crimes and those kinds of things. That's going to come out in all my books.
Megan: And they all have dead bodies.
Greta: Oh, absolutely.
Matty: Yeah, and I think that it's nice because you've both picked taglines where you are sending a very clear, message to the reader and that if someone, you know, reads Murders and Home in the same sentence or you, they read, Myths of Mayhem in the same sentence then it's going to give a very clear, and helpful idea to them of whether your books are for them or not.
Megan: I've been thinking about, I'm going to have a standalone coming out probably later this year that is not, you know, both my existing series, there is this, The Extraordinary Ability that Transforms the Ordinary Life, it's a different Extraordinary Ability in each series, but that's the common theme, but I'm thinking I almost need to tweak the tagline for that one very explicitly to be, What happens when an ordinary person is faced with extraordinary circumstances, or some flavor of that, because I like that juxtaposition of the ordinary and the extraordinary, but in this it's a little bit, you know, It's the idea of an ordinary person stepping up to, to deal with an extraordinary situation.
Matty: So, but there's still consistency there, I think.
Different taglines for the author and the books
Greta: with which your tagline, your, and so this is something too that we teach in the courses that a book tagline is different than an author tagline. And an author tagline is more all-encompassing. Whereas a book like, you know, the mortician mystery is I've been playing around with different taglines for the different titles, but it's usually like a paranormal mortician murder or, something like that's very targeted to that series.
But like an author mission, like yours could be something like where the extraordinary meets the ordinary or where the ordinary meets the extraordinary, because then it would work whichever way you wanted to play with that. Yeah. I won't even charge you for that one.
Matty: We're trading for the clothing and hub thing in exchange for the tagline.
Greta: Exactly. But we do have a little fill in the, several little fill in the blanks kind of things to help people build their tagline. So it's not just now come up with this, it's like you're doing these fill in the blank sentences and then you're editing them and you're, so we do have some steps to that to make it easier.
Matty: Well and I know that you guys have resources to help us out. Can you describe what those are and, where people can go to find them? Megan, I'll throw it out to you.
Megan: sure. So, if you go to authorwheel.com slash stuff, that's where we have all of our current freebies. when you know, subscribe to our list, you get, you can get all of them or download all of them. The one that we are talking about the most in this podcast is the Seven Days to Clarity Uncover your author purpose, and it is a seven-day free little email mini course. we are actually currently as we record this in the process of converting it from like strict email to a more online course where you'll just get a new lesson every day. But you'll still just go over to authorwheel.com slash stuff to sign up and check that out.
Matty: So cool. And I want to uh, give you both a chance to just, direct people to your, fiction writing as well. So, Greta, why don't you, let us know where people can go to find that?
Greta: Yeah. Well, everything that I'm doing is at GretaBoris.com. And I also have, of course, a novella in the mortician mystery world, mortician murder world there for you. It's called Mortuary School. And you can find out what happens when Imogene Lynch goes to Mortuary School.
Matty: Excellent. And Megan, how about you? Where can people find out more about your fiction work?
Megan: Sure, so I'm at MeganHaskell. com, and for mine, you can actually download, I sell all my books in all formats that I have available on my website directly, but the first book, in the Sanyari Chronicles, The Last Descendant, is available for free on my website in ebook form, so you can just go there and download that for free, and then I have some other short stories and things that are available as well.
Matty: So cool. Well, thank you so much, you guys. Always lovely to chat with you. And, thank you for, shedding some light on the author purpose.
Megan: Absolutely, anytime.
Greta: Thanks for having us on, Matty.
